Thoughts From the Emotional Maelstrom

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15 Responses

  1. Baruch Gitlin says:

    This is a miserable situation and an excellent article. In this case at least, I think disjointed (but reality-based) observations are far preferable to profundity.

  2. YM Goldstein says:

    It would make sense for Israel to want to push the Palestinians to offer more concessions in negotiations, but Israel, for several and various reasons, seems incapable of turning the screws in this direction. This leaves only two options: agreeing to the Palestinians terms for a peace settlement, or some combination of unilateral actions and doing nothing. We need Moshiach badly.

  3. Nachum says:

    “the moral high road we occupied in the aftermath of the murder of the three”

    Don’t kid yourself. Among those who don’t hate Jews and Israel, we never lost it. Among those who do, we never had it.

    Your words on the Ukraine hit home. You can’t help but notice that the Ukrainians eagerly joined the Nazis in killing Jews. Why? Well… (Of course, one may well wonder if past Ukrainian persecution of Jews was part of what motivated the Jewish Communists to persecute them, except of course that the leader of the whole effort was Stalin, who was, of course, not Jewish- not even Russian, in fact.)

  4. D says:

    kevod harav,
    At a time that our enemies scour the internet for details to cherry pick and publicize to their followers, where a modern orthodox rabbi writing an article critizing haredim has his text lifted and posted in an anti-semitic website (as I came across recently), is there really a need to bring up the name of that deranged soviet fellow?

  5. Shmuel says:

    Thank you dear Rabbi.

    Once again, you capture in words what the heart feels but the clouded mind cannot adequately express. Am Yisrael is yet again under attack, missles reaching near and far in frightful succession. I want to believe that the extraordinary and deep “אחדות” that nearly all of us experienced so recently, and painfully, will be a zechus for us as it was in the weeks leading up to the Six Day War. It must be. Your heartfelt words have provided some comfort, as well as a path through the confusion and pain.

  6. Steve Brizel says:

    Great article! The debate over the loss of the moral high ground now seems wholly and necessarily academic as the IDF seeks to protect Israel and all of its residents from volleys of rockets based in Gaza that have targeted cities well north of Gaza. We must remember that if the media coverage and professors of international law and their dubious principles, whether in Israeli or American law schools, governed the tactics of Lincoln, Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, FDR, and the commanders of the US AAF and Navy in the Civil War and WW2, we would still be fighting both wars or have long ago given up on any claim or desire to win.

  7. Steve Brizel says:

    Beitar Jerusalem fans sound to me far worse than NY Yankee or Boston fans during a Yankee-Boston game who have had a few too many and like to use expletive deletives to describe their opponents. In contrast, for those who view soccer as some sort of universal sport ( despite th fact that it has never caught on as a major sport in the US, except with those who don’t like American sports, as William Kristol aptly noted), if you read about how fans in Europe chanted anti Semitic slogans during the Spain-Israel soccer match, you would learn that soccer fans in Spain, as well in the UK, are known for using the soccer match as a means of venting their drunken spleens on all issues in a not always PC manner.

  8. Steve Brizel says:

    I think that the notion that some drunken soccer fans triggered rocket launches warrants serious inquiry. That claim is akin to claiming that John Brown’s raid or American trade sanctions , without considering any other factors , were the sole causes for the Civil War or WW2. I find such logic extremely simplistic and reductionistic, especially given what he know about how the residents and leaders of Gaza have acted since the Israeli withdrawal in 2005.

  9. lacosta says:

    those of us who expected first the perpetrators to be arabs , hiloni sefardim , or kahane type settlers , are more unsettled to be facing the reality of a War that will have been caused by an atrocity that may have haredi roots — imagine that jews burned someone at the stake ,essentially. on this regard , the unbridled years of haredi demonstrations by neturei could have been an example [though admittedly this would have to be a first, loss of life]. we also have to think about the non-biblical concepts of the moral and literally spiritual [read animal souls] inferiority of non-jews in their mind superceding ‘thou shalt not murder’

    on a blood filled 3rd or 4th war in gaza, it’s hard to get the upper hand hasbara-wise in the twitter age. and since it’s during Ramadan , it’s All-ah vs Hashem…. what a mess…

  10. Bob Miller says:

    People who want to wreak havoc can always find some rationale. It’s that yetzer hara again. Those who don’t and won’t control themselves need to be held in check by others around them. Some may eventually be reachable, but they can’t be allowed to run wild in the meantime.

  11. dave says:

    lacosta – the rockets started raining down before the Arab kid was abducted. Hamas doesn’t need excuses to kill Jews.

  12. mycroft says:

    .” Jews don’t act that way. Of course, they do at times, especially if they are estranged from Jewish practice”

    Baruch Goldstein was certainly not estranged from Jewish practice and was defended by many RY.

  13. Louis says:

    Shalom, Would suggest listening/watching Rabbi Wein Speaks… In Memory of Eyal, Gilad and Naftali HY”D about 6 minutes in where he indirectly addresses “robbed our people of the moral high road we occupied in the aftermath of the murder of the three kedoshim, HY”D” as perhaps Hashem’s way of making it clear that there was to be no “benefit” from the world and this was to remain our sorrow as with the Bnai Aharon with those most closest and innocent Hashem was sanctified..(a phrase which would be interested in hearing Rabbi Alderstein’s thoughts).

    [YA – My thoughts run in the direction that Rabbi Wein usually takes: Without a navi, we can’t really know Hashem’s purpose. We can’t know if Hashem wanted us to nurse our wounds without any “benefit,” or whether a benefit He intended for us was blown through our actions or inactions.]

  14. Yehoshua Friedman says:

    Mycroft, the inquiry after the Goldstein affair bore marks of PC manipulation. The apparent plan was to enable an Arab pogrom in order to induce the removal of the Jewish settlers of Hevron “for their own good”. Goldstein was known as a doctor who treated Arabs and Jews alike. He was hacked to pieces by Arabs who came to pray before sunrise carrying axes and knives, prepared for slaughter. The Arabs had also stocked up on food and medical supplies expecting a curfew after their actions. I don’t want to go into a long discussion here, but it is possible to find alternative accounts of that event.

  15. Steve Brizel says:

    I don’t see what relevance the actions of Baruch Goldstein and the reaction thereto have to do with the actions of one group of drunken soccer fans and the reaction thereto. I don’t see the need for more than the condemnation to date as opposed to a public pitty party by Israel as a way of asuaging LW public opinion.

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