“Culture” Wars — Update

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20 Responses

  1. Steve Brizel says:

    R Pruzansky deserves a huge Yasher Koach for exposing the PC thinking , lack of due process to the accused and the acceptance of feminist rooted canards about relationships between the genders. Once again, we see that there is more freedom of speech between the walls of any Beis Medrash worthy of the name than on the average college campus today.

  2. Robert says:

    Rabbi, Kol HaKavod to you for speaking out on both the issue of personal choice and responsibility in “hookups” reported as rapes and on the political correctness of the JOFA and secular feminists.

    I’m curious to know if a frum(ish?) campus atmosphere like that at Yeshiva University has a rate of  campus rape, date rape, hookup rape etc. that is any less than that of the “average” US university campus. I would hope that the rate would be lower at YU, to the extent that YU students are supposed to: 1) keep laws of yichud; 2) keep shemirat negiah; and 3) date only for getting married  and not for “entertainment” or “fun”.

    If the incidence of campus rapes at YU, BYU, or other religious student bodies (pardon the body pun) is measurably lower, then it might help prove the role of personal responsibility in consequences of “hookup” culture to the JOFA crowd and their fellow feminist travelers.

  3. Yitzchak Rosenbaum says:

    Yasher koach Rabbi Pruzansky.Very well said.

  4. JunJun says:

    Why exactly does Rabbi Pruzansky believe that this scenario of consensual relations after which the woman regrets her actions and feels hurt and used and then turns around and accuses the man of rape is so common as to deserve its own category and its own article to address it? What hard numbers are there to reflect this hidden statistic?

  5. YbhM says:

    Your intent has always been clear, and the misreprentations of you offered by your critics are egregious.

  6. Oriyah Nitkin says:

    While I do agree with the point that yichud gets people to stay far away from trouble and that it is a good idea for all, a couple of major criticisms of this article.
    1 – (and this is the most crucial.)  Rape and false accusation of rape ARE NOT EQUAL.  Rape harms a woman physically and destroys her emotionally.  Her outer and inner life are severely compromised in best case scenario, and more typically destroyed…from the inside out.  Healing from something like that and walking away intact is virtually impossible and nothing short of heroic.    False rape accusation may destroy a man’s external life, but leaves his inner world intact.  He knows who he is and what he did and did not do, and can walk away and start life anew elsewhere and be totally OK.  Not so for a woman who has been raped.  And drawing any sort of equivalence between the 2 is delusional and shows a complete lack of understanding of what rape is.
    2 – “female virtue” – what about male virtue?!?!  and in the same vein – “King David’s Sanhedrin decreed that an unmarried man and woman should not be secluded together (the prohibition of yichud). That was good advice then as it is now. It doesn’t mean that they “blamed” Tamar; rather that prudence and common sense dictate not putting oneself in a situation of potential danger” ….Where does blame for Tamar come into play?  Hilchot Yichud apply to men just as much as they apply to women.  If a man doesn’t leave a yichud situation, he is just as much accountable.  No one even mentioned blaming Tamar – a cursory read of the situation would more likely look like a woman should be externally protected (and not independently responsible for her own protection) from this law.  

    • YbhM says:

      (and this is the most crucial.)  Rape and false accusation of rape ARE NOT EQUAL.  ….. And drawing any sort of equivalence between the 2 is delusional and shows a complete lack of understanding of what rape is.

      R. Pruzansky referred to both rape and false accusations of rape as abominable crimes.  He used the same language for both, but did not state that they are equivalent in their abominable-ness.

      But R. Pruzansky states explicitly that he is not writing to address those cases ie. he is writing about the campus hookup culture.

      So it seems that the criticism of R. Pruzansky boils down to the following:  in the context of a comment on the culture/atmosphere on campuses, R. Pruzansky refers to rape and false accusations as “abominable” – but suggests that they are equally abominable.  And for this he deserves to be Alinsky-ized and fired…

      “female virtue” – what about male virtue?!?!  …   Hilchot Yichud apply to men just as much as they apply to women.  If a man doesn’t leave a yichud situation, he is just as much accountable. …

      R. Pruzansky does not say anything to the contrary.  Indeed I am certain that R. Pruzansky agrees with you …

    • B Harper says:

      I do not understand how Oriyah can so easily dismiss a false accusation of rape, unless of course she has been falsely accused of a serious moral crime herself.

      She seems to see nothing wrong in enabling women to blithely destroy the lives of former boyfriends. A false accusation of rape can easily end a man’s college career — or true career. Unlike a rape victim, no one will look at him the same way again. People seem much more interested in accusations like these than whether or not they are actually true. And unlike a rapist, the “lying complainant” is almost never punished or prosecuted, even if her victim somehow proves conclusively that she was lying.

      In the world of a modern academia there is no such thing as a false accusation against a man. As seen in the infamous Duke Lacrosse Case, a female drug-addicted stripper is more credible than a male All-American collegiate who has done nothing wrong greater than a speeding ticket, with a rock-solid alibi proving he was a mile away using an ATM when the “rape” allegedly occurred. Just last month, Yale expelled the captain of its men’s basketball team, because a girl in a relationship with him a year ago claimed that the fourth of four encounters between them was non-consensual — despite the fact that she left his room after that encounter, met up with him later that evening and returned with him. No one in the Yale administration appears to believe that it is unusual for a victim of sexual assault to return to spend the night in bed together with her assailant, much less imagine that this might place her accusations within the realm of “reasonable doubt.”

      Undergraduate men accused by former girlfriends routinely find themselves suspended or expelled from college after “hearings” without due process or the presumption of innocence. Fortunately, lawyers in the real world seem unimpressed with the PC environment on campus, and the Yale case is only one where the university in question finds itself on the receiving end of a large lawsuit for their misconduct.

       

      • joe36ct says:

        You need to look up the definition of “routinely”.

        • B Harper says:

          If 75 men have gone so far as to file lawsuits against their colleges since 2013, I’d like to know what definition of “routinely” this isn’t.
          http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bab5cb59d0464264948890b99c4cffcc/colleges-face-legal-backlash-men-accused-sex-crimes

          “The accused can be removed from a class, dorm or campus even before a disciplinary hearing is held so that the accuser does not have to cross paths with her alleged attacker. Disciplinary proceedings can take months, meaning the accused can miss a year of school before the case is decided.”

          Which means: a woman can have ruin her ex-boyfriend’s academic career simply because she doesn’t want to see him anymore. And since he can never prove a negative, she will suffer no consequences for lying.

          • Reb Yid says:

            While any false positives are obviously not a good thing, and 75 since 2013 is not nothing, that is a very small drop in the very large bucket of rape and sexual assaults against females.  It’s the false negatives that are far more systemic and pervasive.

            The DOJ document notes that among females age 18-24 between 1995-2013, over 31,000 students and an additional 65,000 non-students were so victimized per year.  The vast majority of these cases, sadly but understandably, were not reported to the police.

             

             

          • Richard says:

            There’s no way this is true, or men wouldn’t keep going to college.

    • Michoel Reach says:

      “Rape and false accusation of rape ARE NOT EQUAL.  Rape harms a woman physically and destroys her emotionally.  Her outer and inner life are severely compromised in best case scenario, and more typically destroyed…from the inside out.  Healing from something like that and walking away intact is virtually impossible and nothing short of heroic.    False rape accusation may destroy a man’s external life, but leaves his inner world intact.  He knows who he is and what he did and did not do, and can walk away and start life anew elsewhere and be totally OK.  Not so for a woman who has been raped.  And drawing any sort of equivalence between the 2 is delusional and shows a complete lack of understanding of what rape is.”

      I feel that this comment is coming from a “complete lack of understanding” of what a fake rape accusation could do to a man. Is this based on any evidence? I would have thought that every single thing that Oriyah said about rape should apply. In some ways, it might even be worse, as no decent person thinks that the rape victim did anything wrong, whereas the victim of the false accusation is a pariah in society.

      Anyhow, how can anyone dismiss something that “may destroy a man’s external life”? Isn’t that totally devastating all by itself, isn’t like killing someone?

  7. Robert Lebovits says:

    In Heather MacDonald’s article she reports on the high incidence of non-reported assaults and notes that a high percentage of women chose not press forward because “it was not serious enough to report”. However, she does not explain what the category encompasses.

    For many – if not most of those women – it simply means they have little trust their stories will be believed or any positive outcome will ensue. Perhaps they are prescient and recognize the position R. Pruzansky takes is actually more common than the one that says it’s always the man’s fault and so there is little value in reporting. They also know how limited is the possibility of successful prosecution.

    In the public at large, similar to at Harvard, Justice Department data state that only 32 out of 100 rapes  are ever reported with only 2 out 100 convicted. Apparently college women are no different than other women in their attitude toward making allegations, despite the feminist agenda on campus, for comparable reasons having little to do with the hookup culture.

  8. Mike Gilliard says:

    Good job Rabbi Pruzansky.

  9. Rachel says:

    Unfortunately once you start talking about this topic, you’ve already lost the battle.  It doesn’t matter how logical or accurate or even compassionate your words may be – once you’re a man talking about rape, as a woman, I’m already feeling aggravated.  Sorry to say it but that’s the truth :).

     

  10. Charles Gregor says:

    Today anyone who denies the absolute right to all forms of sexual fulfillment, even only for himself, is a sexist, racist, homophobic, Islamophobic monster.  The epithets are multiplied like makkos in the Haggadah.  Rabbi Pruzansky can stand up to such abuse, but an 18-year-old college student doesn’t have a prayer.
    R. Pruzansky should stop trying to reform secular mores and exercise some genuine rabbinic leadership.  He should tell his Modern Orthodox congregants something they don’t want to hear.  Tell them that sending a child to Harvard, Yale or Princeton is avodas Moloch, a sacrifice to the god of professional success.
    The controversy is particularly pointless because it is in the end political.  Were R. Pruzansky a Democrat, he could have defended outright child molesters such as Jeffrey Epstein and Roman Polanski.  His opponents will almost certainly vote for the wife of a serial predator, a woman who actually did blame the victims.

    • Steve Brizel says:

      Charles Gregor wrote in part:

      “He should tell his Modern Orthodox congregants something they don’t want to hear.  Tell them that sending a child to Harvard, Yale or Princeton is avodas Moloch, a sacrifice to the god of professional success”

      How many horror stories and polls of the drop off in observance will we need before MO realizes that sending kids, even after a year or two in Israel, is fraught with spiritual dangers for the average MO high school graduate.

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