At the Lemonade Stand

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10 Responses

  1. Arnie Lustiger says:

    Morally, politically, and even epistemologically, Orthodox Jews have far more in common with Fundamentalist Christians than with liberal Jews. The big tent has blown away. That is the subtext behind the Forward’s hypocrisy. Imagine the cries of racism if we were to advocate denial of welfare benefits to black families because they were “undeserving”.

  2. Ben Maddow says:

    I’ll go ahead and be the Orthodox triumphalist for you. We survived the kusim; we survived the christians; we survived all the false messiahs and shabtai tzvi; we survived haskala; we survived reform; we survived conservative; and we’ll survive the Forward.

  3. Bob Miller says:

    Is the author contending that all our Orthodox factions get along well in working toward the common good? Most of them? There seems to be more friction than our common set of beliefs would lead us to expect.

  4. Dovid Friedman says:

    Ben: That is very noble of you. Still, it is remarkable how little you seem to care or realize, that it is not victory for anyone when huge segments of the Jewish population simply stop affiliating and are completely lost–completing your “triumph”.

  5. Isaac Shalev says:

    The new Jewish community described by the study is VERY different. It is less a community and more a network of affinities. And while it may struggle for cohesion and continuity, it appears to be much more capable of spreading Jewish values and ideas to the surrounding culture than Orthodoxy. Will it blow away in the winds of time? Perhaps. Will Orthodoxy isolate itself into irrelevancy? Perhaps. But the above debate over whether or not to look at the bright side of a depressing study strikes me as frivolous.

  6. Ori Pomerantz says:

    Arnie Lustiger: That is the subtext behind the Forward’s hypocrisy. Imagine the cries of racism if we were to advocate denial of welfare benefits to black families because they were “undeserving”.

    Ori: The two cases are not equivalent or even similar. Being Orthodox is a choice, being black is not. If you want an equivalence, consider single mothers (where single motherhood is a choice – barring rape, divorce initiated by the husband, and widowhood).

  7. Ori Pomerantz says:

    Issac Shalev: And while it may struggle for cohesion and continuity, it appears to be much more capable of spreading Jewish values and ideas to the surrounding culture than Orthodoxy.

    Ori: I think this is a matter of differing concerns. I’m heterodox, and for me improving the surrounding culture is more important. But I think for Orthodox Jews Jewish continuity is much more important.

  8. Caren V. May says:

    The polarization in Orthodoxy has increased proportionaly, echoing life in Eretz Yisroel. Shuls, yeshivos, beis medresh, day schools, kollels are welcoming participants according to a extremely selective agenda. Doors are closed to any one considered the “other” or “different”. Diversity is a dream and a goal that is possible with the proper chinuch, modeling and desire.

    Personally, I believe that there is a disdain for intergration of diverse groups (from both sides of the coin), complete apathy in confronting or facing diversity and an exagerated fear of the “other” which is growing stronger and stronger.

  9. Steve Brizel says:

    Eytan Kobre’s article was an excellent analysis of the much discussed recent survey re the greater NY Jewish population. IMO, the survey is flawed by its definition and focus on NYC, LI and Westhester. One is missing the big story of Orthodoxy is one neglects to discuss the strong MO and Charedi communities that are simply just over the river. OTOH, one can only hope that the Charedi and MO worlds simply appreciate each other’s contributions, strengths and weaknesses -a factor that the Kobre article could have discussed in its analyis of unity and diversity.

  10. Mr. Cohen says:

    Another pro-Orthodox quote from Jack Wertheimer:

    “…the one major exception to the general rule, namely, Orthodox Jews.
    Not only do the Orthodox suffer many fewer losses from intermarriage,
    but their fertility rate is far above the Jewish norm.
    …The statistical evidence behind these birthrates is laid out in the 2000-01 NJPS.”

    SOURCE:
    Jews and the Jewish Birthrate by Jack Wertheimer,
    Commentary magazine, October 2005

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