Shimon Peres Looks Back

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9 Responses

  1. lacosta says:

    given that not all the heder-educated leadership were inherently anti-tora, one wonders had the haredi attitude to the zionist establishment been different between say 1880-1945 , one wonders if the face of the State could have looked different—ie the playing down of the Hashomer Hatzair aspects, maybe denuding the eidot hamizrach of their religious heritage could have been avoided…..

    but of course the Minchas Elazar, Rebbe Rashab , Satmar Rov represented the mainstream response of the torah world; and that violent theological interplay between Tora and State , and what they represent , will struggle until at least Mashiach comes , if not longer….

  2. aron feldman says:

    Happy to see that Benny Morris has done teshuva (at least intelectualy)

  3. L. Oberstein says:

    I found this sentance to be pivotal “I saw in my mind’s eye my grandfather. I was not a neutral observer.” to understanding why people of that generation had a soft spot for chareidim.

    In the full article he comments on how Bruno Kreisky was publicly very negative but privately helped Israel. Golda Meir had a very negative run in with him and found him to be very unhelpful. In the end, the future won’t come from assimilated Jews who don’t pass on any meaningful Jewish observances to the next generations. By the way, a “lone soldier” from the US was chosen to observe the Pesach Seder with Shimon Peres. He reported that it was a traditional orthodox seder with Peres leading it as the grandfather.

  4. dr. bill says:

    lacosta – you write “but of course the Minchas Elazar, Rebbe Rashab , Satmar Rov represented the mainstream response of the torah world.” If they represented the torah world, forget Rav Kook or the Rav ztl, but the likes of RSZA ztl have been excluded as well. What is sad about your comment is the desire by some to paint the chareidi world as uniform; it is not and neither the three rabbis mentioned or the remainder of the torah world are anything close to uniform. your major point about what might have been if the likes of Rav Kook or even many moderate chareidim held sway, is an interesting area for conjecture.

    and you write: “maybe denuding the eidot hamizrach of their religious heritage could have been avoided…..” Have you had significant interaction with the yemenite community in Israel? The many modern, frum members of that community who have integrated into Israeli society as productive and Torah observant, are, last i checked, fully clothed! Were families lost? ertainly. But the community is a vibrant part of the State of Israel

  5. Bob Miller says:

    We ought to at least try to be objective in our evaluation of the old guard secular Zionist leaders. Swinging from extreme to extreme in our assessment should be avoided.

  6. pk says:

    I don’t understand how you can write such a positive article about Shimon Peres. With his sponsorship of the Oslo Accords (which he pushed with all his might including lying about the change in the PLO charter), he is responsible for the death of over 1000 Jews. We will never forget that.

  7. Dov says:

    We see in recent parshios that Moshe Rabbeinu’s greatness is not diminished by the fact that he made a big mistake in striking the sela. Perhaps we can conclude that the greatness of an individual is in accomplishments, and is not diminished by well-intentioned mistakes. Well-intentioned mistakes are punished, but people appear to be judged by their accomplishments.

    Yes, le’havdil elef alfei havdalos. Le’havdil bein kodesh le’chol. But maybe it’s still a point worth thinking about.

  8. pk says:

    I don’t think that Shimon Peres’ mistakes were well intentioned. I think they were the result of his tremendous ego and desire for honor and glory in the non Jewish world. For this he was prepared to sacrifice the lives of many Jews (up to 1,500 men, women and little children). Jewish History will not be kind to him.

  9. Tziki says:

    pk and others…though SP is very responsible for oslo , he couldn’t have done w/o rabbinical help…like the golden calf needed aaron hacohen…

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