Living and Working Together

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8 Responses

  1. mycroft says:

    There is no doubt to Jewish society there are advantages to living in a “mixed-Jewish” area. The Nahal Hareidi has advantages and disadvantages-on one hand it keeps segregated religous Jews from non religious Jews-on the other hand it makes it possible for some Chareidi Jews to fulfill their societal obligations. I believe I recently read that Gen Stern -the head of the IDF manpwer section-stated that he has ordered that no female IDF soldiers come within a kilometer of the Nahal Hareid units-he doesn’t want any excuses for hareidim not to serve.
    The issue of separate units including of course Hesder units is not that simple. General Stern himself has been personally opposed to them since his days in Yeshiva-I believe Gush. If I recall correctly during the Gush Katif disengagement Gen Stern made some comments as being opposed to the whole idea of separate hesder units-many thought it was apolitical statement concerning the evacuation of Aza-but Rav Amital stated that although he disagrees with Gen Stern-he had the same discussions with Stern 30 years ago at Gush-and Stern has been concerned about the impact of separate units for decades.
    Anyone spending time in Israel can easily notice a lot of mixed units-obvious religious soldiers in the same units as obvious secular soldiers. One can easily expand the point of Rabbi Feldman’s linked article to the issue of separate IDF units.

  2. dr. william gewirtz says:

    Nice article. Two points.

    1) You write: “Some students in the dati-leumi schools, including one of R. Eisen’s sons, are concerned with what they see as unsatisfactory halachic standards in the hesder option. A large number of these knitted-kipah-donning young men are choosing Nahal Haredi..” Dati-leumi (there are three or so major flavors of these schools and they are quite diverse) HS graduates who join Nahal Charedi can have multiple motivations beyond the one you mention. I assume that not all want to sign up for the rigors of a 5 year hesder program. Others may have gone to Charedi-lite DL schools, given available choices for one wishing a secular education and hesder would expose them to a broader DL cross-section. Given the size of Nahal Charedi, I assume that among Hesder and the regular army, it is still running third among DL grads. But given its leadership, I would hope it attracts more of those not choosing Hesder for any reason; both groups would profit.

    2) I like to tell the Israel story quantitatively. Venture based businesses (a subset of high-tech) accounts for about 7-9% of the Israeli economy (an astounding number!) and much less than .5% of the US. The numbers are still subject to verification, but are a guess that a few have vetted. This puts both the success and the educational needs (and the motivations for some of the suggested programs directed to the charedi community) of the Israeli economy into some perspective, particularly in contrast to the US.

  3. Garnel Ironheart says:

    A wonderful reminder that the stuff that doesn’t make the news (because it lacks doom ‘n’ gloom) is the stuff that gives us chuzik the most. However, one comment:

    > An Israeli company has engineered a system that monitors the car’s position relative to lane markers, other cars, pedestrians, and hazards. Eventually, it could enable cars to drive themselves.

    One might argue that Israelis already allow their cars to drive themselves, what with all the traffic “incidents” that happen.

  4. bb says:

    From your (and my) perspective, the tale of NH is positive. However, from the perspective of the RW Chareidi group in EY, its success is its problem. Rav Dessler explains that the derech hayeshivos is one dimensional. It’s sole intent is to produce Talmidei Chachomim. As part of this, people who felt they had to leave the yeshivos were steered to menial jobs that were unfulfilling and didn’t pay well so that leaving the yeshiva would not be an attractive alternative to yeshiva.

    Hence, I imagine, there are many who view the success of NH as proof of why its bad.

  5. Melanie says:

    bb you raise an important point.

    I wonder whether the unappealing nature of leaving yeshiva is a modern one, or whether Gedolim always believed that the sole purpose of Jewish life is to grow Talmidei Chachamim.

    There are those in the Charedi camp who argue that nowadays, moderation of “extra” pursuits is impossible, that people are too easily absorbed in these distractions (education and careers included), and the energies required to pursue them are too intense. Which is perhaps a reason that the kollel movement, supposedly founded to rejuvenate the yeshivas post-Holocaust, is still the “only” approved profession.

  6. LOberstein says:

    Maybe I am being credulous, but reading the recent articles by Rabbi Emanuel Feldman, as well as Rabbis Adlerstein and Rosenblum, I am feeling a little better about chareidi Israel. Maybe there is a change going on, maybe more people are willing to work and as options become available, the trickle will grow. Maybe the lack of generous child allowances,etc. will bring about a cultural change that will make it socially acceptable to work for a living. I hope the Nahal Chareidi starts being an option for a broader spectrum of young men and not just for the “losers”. I still don’t understand why the insulting kol koreis that say such nasty things about people are just hyperbole and a style. But,if it is discounted and disregarded because of its offensive language maybe that is a positive.
    In essence I think the message that I am hearing ( I may be wrong) is don’t take the party line as the whole truth and realize that change for the better is coming, although it is like cold molasses on a winter day.

  7. cvmay says:

    Rabbi Emanuel Feldman’s article, “Like-minded Neighbors” is a perfect example of an issue for open discussion within the confines of our yeshiva mosdos. Let the students draw conclusions pro and con, understanding the benefits for and against. Is this for everyone? Why and Why not?
    (Over a decade ago, when my oldest daughter was studying in Eretz Yisroel seminary, her mechanaches stated, “It is assur to live in a community that is not a majority of Torahdik(?) families” (BTW typical daas of Israelis). Since we were residing in an outstanding makom Torah of Minneapolis, Minnesota at the time, my daughter challenged her teacher who did not relent on her dass even an iota.)

  8. Steve Brizel says:

    For those interested in reading a wonderful piece on the necessity of machlokes and for hasshkafic differences, I can only suggest that you run and read R Yaakov Kamenetsky ZTL in Emes LYaakov on Parshas Yaechi,( 49:1) s.v. Haosfu Vagidah. Like it or not, Torah Judaism does not require a mediocracy without dissagreement or chilukei deos or what I would call a KSA approach to hashkafa. R Feldman’s article is a welcome reminder of the fact that living in a religiously monolithically community flies in the face of the view of at least RYK ZTL.

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