The never-ending saga of unrecognized American conversions

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12 Responses

  1. Bob Miller says:

    Those who blatantly reject normative halacha in theory and/or practice have no business making halachic judgments affecting people. When they do, don’t be surprised if their goal is to subvert halacha and destroy halachic enforcement mechanisms.

  2. dr. bill says:

    Three points:
    1) assumedly, if the sins of fathers are not visited on their children, the sins are, kal ve’chomer, not visited on others. guilt by association and ish be’cheto yumot are incompatible.
    2) I assume as well that at least some of these geirim were sincere and their persecution is an issur de’oraysah.
    3) cases must be adjudicated individually; we are not dealing with an ir ha’nidakhat.

    • Yaakov Menken says:

      This is incorrect. (1) To claim that attending YCT or being part of OO is merely “guilt by association” is akin to saying NRA membership is “guilt by association” with those who advocate for private individuals to own guns. (2) A ger who does not go in front of a Kosher Beis Din has not converted, no matter how sincere. (3) see (1).

  3. Steve Brizel says:

    R Fischer and R Gordimer have spelled out the simple facts. We should not be engaged in rationalizing the indefensible.

  4. Mycroft says:

    Dr BillI agree that everyone must be judged individually thus clearly some Gerim were at least as sncere as those who might have been Megayer by more reputable people. If issue is the Bes Din, then issue should not be organization that Rabbi associated with but personal behavior. Thus, no matter what organization a Rabbi was affiliated should not kasher the get when we know that Rabbi has been constantly engaged in Averos , of course we don’t see that it is which place they were trained that is crucial rather than case by case analysis.

  5. rkz says:

    I spoke yesterday to a close friend of mine, who is a dayan in a very active beit din in chutz le’aretz (and not in the US), where he is in charge of the whole gerut issue. H told me they check every gerut from outside, since there are many many problems with gerut today. One of the main criteria they use is identity of the rabbi ho signed the gerut certification. That is a necessary procedure, and it is patently clear that the rabbanut must do so.

  6. Yehudah says:

    Spot on. Rabbi Fischer’s writing is cogent and a breath of fresh Air. My sympathies to the potential converts who get cought up with these Rabbis with out understanding the ramification of a sham conversion.

  7. Nachum says:

    One not-so-minor point: The Kotel is not “Judaism’s holiest site.” That would be a few meters up and to the north.

    I’m reminded that a (female) Reform rabbi in Maine was once stricken quite ill, and in her recovery was unable to travel to her own temple- and so davened at Herzfeld’s shul, where she was received graciously. All well and good.

    But then Herzfeld had her *daven for the amud*. He put out some “halakhic” gobbledygook about “maintaining her in her previous position” or something, but come on: There was no halakhic basis for what he did, and even leaving halakha aside, there was no need for him to do so.

    These people are driven by something, but it ain’t Judaism.

  8. Yoss says:

    Dr. Bill,

    As Rabbi Menken pointed out, the issue would be the validity of the Beis Din, not the sincerity of the conversions. How did you miss that? It is such an obvious distinction.

  9. mavin says:

    What these people are driven by is definitely not Torah/Judaism. What it is, is an agenda to do away with true Torah for their new one world of one happy go lucky religion , one society, one army, one currency and their masters. This is the new Tower of Bavel. Those who push for this within the Jewish people are the Erev Rav, the same souls who caused the sin of the golden calf. They are all the enemies from within our midst. BTW, this was a great article and wish every Jew everywhere would have the opportunity to read it. Now we can see, how we have sunk to the 50th level of tumah; cannot go further down, so we must be saved.

  10. lacosta says:

    for those of us who didn’t live in the founding years of deviation from rabbinic judaism movements like christianity or reform, we get to see live what it must have been like…

  11. Y Sasson says:

    I wrote a few months ago on this forum that I discovered a letter from the Rav that was rather supportive and praising of Meir Kahane, and some of the commenters here were quite surprised. I have recently published the letter in an article on the Seforim blog, along with a number of other gems that I found in Rav Herzog’s archive.
    The article may be of interest to the readers here –

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