Be Careful With Your Words

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87 Responses

  1. joel rich says:

    Rav Yosef B. Soloveitchik zt”l was very context based – while I basically agree with your thesis consider his comments here:

    http://www.torahmusings.com/2015/08/audio-roundup-197/

    Brief description of whether tcheilet is m’akev (lack keeps one from completing the mitzvah) and requirements for strings, dye and color. Tcheilet represents permanence, white represents clarity. Interesting side point – a call for adding an “al cheit” (we sinned) for American Jewry’s actions (or lack thereof) during the holocaust.

    KT

    • mycroft says:

      The Rav was very much context based. He also was to put it mildly very disappointed with our Community’s response in the Holocaust. IMO his viewpoint was consistent with Zuroff’s-note it was during WWII that the Rav switched to Mizrachi from Agudah.

      • Steve Brizel says:

        When you say “our community”, you have to remember that RYBS spared no sector of American Jewry in that assessment.

      • mycroft says:

        Agreed-but our community included specifically the frum community among others.

      • Steve brizel says:

        Wasn’t RYBS involved with and supportive of the efforts of the Vaad Haatzalah a group that Zuroff has viewed as overly parochial and too concerned with rescuing talmidei chachamim?

      • Steve Brizel says:

        It is important to remember that before WW2, there was substantial anti Semitic and isolationist sentiment and public opinion in the US that was subsidized by Henry Ford, expressed in venomous fashion by Charles Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh, many members of Congress and Joseph Kennedy as well as much activity by the KKK which burned crosses in my former home town ,which is now one of the summer capitals of the charedi world.My father ZL always recounted the cross burnings and the fact that Lindburgh spoke on his college campus immediately prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.It is also important to realize that there was no AIPAC, marginal political influence, and no concept of public rallies in support of European Jewry in the same way as there was on Soviet Jewry and for Israel today. FDR himself expressed no particular interest in rescuing European Jewry either before the outbreak of the war and diverted no military resources whatsoever to bombing the concentration camps, despite the fact that the Jewish community idolized FDR. 

  2. David Ohsie says:

    “This rabbi failed to note one critical distinction. Mordechai in no way exhibited contempt for the Persian government. Mordechai expressed his anguish and pain about an impending catastrophe, but he did not shout anyone down, denigrate others or act impetuously or derisively.”

    And all the king’s servants, that were in the king’s gate, bowed down, and prostrated themselves before Haman; for the king had so commanded concerning him. But Mordecai bowed not down, nor prostrated himself before him.  Then the king’s servants, that were in the king’s gate, said unto Mordecai: ‘Why transgressest thou the king’s commandment?’  Now it came to pass, when they spoke daily unto him, and he hearkened not unto them, that they told Haman, to see whether Mordecai’s words would stand; for he had told them that he was a Jew.  And when Haman saw that Mordecai bowed not down, nor prostrated himself before him, then was Haman full of wrath.  But it seemed contemptible in his eyes to lay hands on Mordecai alone; for they had made known to him the people of Mordecai; wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai.

    • R.B. says:

      David – Mordechai did not bow to Haman because of the Tzelem A”Z, not because he was showing contempt to the King, though by doing so he appeared to be violating Achashverosh’s edict. The Alshich proves this is pashut pshat, since first it mentions that the servants of the king bowed, and then states that the king commanded it. In fact your quote proves this: “And when Haman saw that Mordecai bowed not down, nor prostrated himself…”. The bowing is due to the command of the king, while the prostrating related to the A”Z. So the contempt was for Haman and his A”Z, not for the government.

      http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=39923&st=&pgnum=53

      • dr. bill says:

        i think you need to understand the word – pshat.  clearly chazal were bothered by anyone transgressing a king’s edict and explained the circumstance in an acceptable way, thereby teaching an important lesson that a king’s edict deserves respect – akin to dina de’malchusa.

      • David Ohsie says:

        R.B.  I’m speaking of the Peshat which is what R Herzfeld was referring to. I did not take enough time to learn your source properly, but I believe that you may be misreading your source.   At the end of the first paragraph on page 27, he says that he would not have bowed down to him even if he removed the idol.  In the next paragraph he quotes the explanation that after he said was a Jew, they mentioned that his forefathers bowed to Eisav and he answers that he is descended from Binyomin who did not bow to Eisav.   FWIW, Rashi doesn’t mention any idol and says that Haman was trying to make himself into a deity.

      • R.B. says:

        David,

        Sorry. Please see the previous page (page 26) starting at the bottom of the left hand column of the Alshich’s peirush (D”H “V’chol avdei hamelech”) and continue on to the next page, on the right hand column until “d’travayhu isneihu”.

        As for the pshat in those pesukim, if you look at all of the meforshim and Chazal, they provide reasons for the “apparent” failure to comply with the law to bow to Haman. However, they all learn that Mordechai’s intention was not to not comply with the king’s edict. Rather, it was to avoide serving A”Z, or at least give the appearance of serving it. Further, as you can from the pesukim, Mordechai did not respond to the question posed by an eved hamelech for him non-compliance. Mordechai didn’t jump, yelling and screaming, and protest loudly. His conduct is that of a silent protest, which is what I understand R’ Gordimer believes is giving us an example of how to protest.

      • Elly Shevin says:

        Mordechai’s silent protest was recognizable because he had been asked a direct question. If Herzfeld had remained silent, how would anyone know he was protesting?

      • David Ohsie says:

        I read it.  Why is this translation wrong?

        “And even so, he would not bow and not prostrate even if he removed the idol from his chest, and certainly not that were there were both factors [Haman’s evil and the idol, I think]”.

        Also please explain the next section which has nothing to do with any idol.

        Mordecai publicly did something which was offensive and seen by everyone else as offensive to the highest government officer and seems to have been “against the law”.  He was warned not to and continued to do so, directly resulting in a decree to exterminate the Jews.

        I’m not sure what you mean by “did not respond” by your interpretation.  Your source says that he interprets the pesukim to mean that Mordecai specifically responded “because I am Jewish”!.

        The fact that Mordecai didn’t yell is really special pleading; he didn’t wear a tie either.   R Herzfeld did something which is fully within the American political tradition, to a candidate for president (not someone in power), and didn’t even stick out in any way given the similar kinds opposition to Trump in many locales.  Enough certainly that R Herzfeld’s analogy with the Purim story is valid whether or not you agree with his protest.

         

  3. Reb Yid says:

    Really, now…taking yet another pot shot at Rav Herzfeld.  What a shocker.

     

    If the issue at hand is really about respecting America, as you claim, the counter examples to deride are the yeshivot who flout and disrespect our country and neighbors by funneling money away from their intended educational

    • mycroft says:

      Tell you a maaseh shehaya before I retired I met an accountant-since he went to a leading Yeshiva I asked him how did he take his courses-answer they had an arrangement with a special program at institution X-asked him but they are nowhere near where the Yeshiva is-how did you go to classes. Answer whats the difference. He was bright and could do the work but…

      • Steve Brizel says:

        Read R Adlerstein’s posts. BMG is Kulo Torah but has programs to help those who are transitioning from the yeshiva world into careers.

    • Steve Brizel says:

      Proof please?

      • mycroft says:

        What you expect to tell you the persons name, what time his bus got to Manhattan.  What per cent of time minyan on his bus took of total commute.I am relating a story from less than 2 years ago. I intentionally did not mention names or even the name for search engine purposes. Although, there certainly is a good possibility that humans rather than robots can figure it out.

  4. dr. bill says:

    Donald Trump mocked a disabled reporter, debased the honor due a tortured prisoner of war, makes consistent reference to his wealth, tolerates the support of bigots, etc. etc.  And a rabbi of a liberal orthodox community expresses outrage loudly. What are we to imagine will happen next?

    • R.B. says:

      Did this same rabbi protest Bernie Sander’s exaggerated claim that 10000 Pali-Abs died in 2014 war in Gaza? Did he try to intervene when Bernie Sanders in appointing Cornel West and James Zogby to the Democratic committee drafting its policy on Israel? Why is he indignation saved for a right wing populist (whom I don’t care for at all) but not for a far-left candidate who’s policies would have endangered Israel? If you can show me (and I did searches to find something) please let me know and I will retract what I wrote.

      • dr. bill says:

        i guess i missed sanders speaking at Aipac, a jewish setting.

      • mycroft says:

        Sanders has liberal politics on Israel but spent time there in the 60s as did Stan Fischer who is a Cohen also liberal on Israeli Arab politics.

      • Steve Brizel says:

        Sanders has radical political views, spent time on a HaShomer HaTzair kibbutz and has never identified with the Jewish community on any issue relating to Israel. His advisors were not just left wing but quite hostile to Israel, especially with respect to Israel’s purportedly disproportionate use of force in self defense. He is a typical socialist-atheist ( like many of the Jewish teachers in my old home town) whose religions are socialism uber alles and who views the current occupant of Vatican City in Rome as his type of spiritual leader.

      • Steve Brizel says:

        Stanley Fischer’s expertise is economics and his views liberated Israel from being an over regulated would be “socialist paradise” into the high tech start up nation that it has become today.

      • mycroft says:

        of course you refer to Sanders leftist time in Israel Google stan Fischer and shower hazair. He is very liberal on Israels relations with its neighbors and minority population. It wasn’t really relevant to Bibi because Bibi wanted his economic policies which were consistent with one who was at one time VP of Citicorp-just before he became nagid of the Israeli central bank

      • mycroft says:

        One can easily argue that Bibi andFischer increased the inequality in Israel so that the wealthy get wealthier and the poor are gradually losing the safety net that they used to have. It is still better for the non wealthy than US higher life expectancy than US because a much greater portion of the population is within the health care system.

      • Steve Brizel says:

        I would rather see the doctor of my choice when I want to rather wait on line ala Israel’s socialist medical system. AFAIK, there is no constitutional right to medical care. Fischer gets the credit for realizing that free markets and free minds go together, a fact that the left has never accepted in the US and elsewhere as the regulatory state keeps marching us towards political , social and economic serfdom.

      • Steve brizel says:

        I don’t think that dictating or rationing medical care is a function of government. The real question is whether it was fair to transfer funds from medicaid and medicare to subsidize Obama care and to destroy the quality of medical care in the process.

      • R.B. says:

        In hachi nami. He was supposed to but backed out last minute. Instead, he provided his written speech that he would have delivered.

        Regardless, R’ Herzfeld and others made it known before AIPAC they would protest: http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/an-open-letter-to-donald-trump-from-orthodox-rabbis/.

        A similar letter about the possibility of Sanders speaking at AIPAC was never written.

      • Reb Yid says:

        That’s because AIPAC hypocritically never allowed for that possibility.  Even though in the previous political campaign it had allowed Republican candidates to address AIPAC remotely, it created a new rule that did not allow anyone except for the Israeli PM to do that.

      • R.B. says:

        No Reb Yid, the answer staring you in the face is that OO has raised a generation of rabbis who identify with the political liberal left.

      • Elly Shevin says:

        R.B., isn’t it possible you’ve got cause and effect reversed? Don’t rabbis opt for OO because they’re politically liberal?

      • mycroft says:

        There is nothing inconsistent with an Orthodox Rabbi being liberal. In my time at YU a lot fit the bill.

      • mycroft says:

        Steve I don’t know what plan you have but to the best of my knowledge practically all US health plans have a list of medical care providers that are covered-they all have lists of labs covered. Insurance companies routinely change the covered medications-I myself had one that my carrier stopped covering this year and thus am taking a different one now.

        thus, it comes down to do you want government decide what covers you a democratically elected one or do you want to be coverage decisions made by a private insurance carrier where every dollar spent comes out of their profit. Both Israel and US permit toy to see who you want both have limitations on who you can be reimbursed/ paid for

      • mycroft says:

        Steve:

        You apparently don’t believe like I do that government is responsible that poor people don’t die in the streets. It is also the Jewish world eglah Arufah, also see perish of Tov she rofim legahanom because patients won’t be able to afford physicians fees, won’t be treated  and thus die

      • mycroft says:

        Before Sanders AIPAC let other Presidential candidates address their meetings from afar this year they refused Sanders request stating that they will only let Israeli  PMs do that for now on. Curious if that policy continues now. Sanders released what he stated would be his speech which can found easily on the Internet.

      • mycroft says:

        Steve Just a reminder US life expectancy is lower than Israels. US is2nd lowest of any OECD country-Mexico is lower.

      • Steve brizel says:

        Government should protect its citizens from domestic and foreign enemies. The Torah is not a blueprint for either liberal or conservative ideology. it is a huge overstatement to state that the Torah supports either a regulatory welfare state or a purely unregulated capitalist state.

      • David Ohsie says:

        This was not Rabbi Gordimer’s argument.  He argued that we should simply keep quiet.  “dr. bill” showed why Trump is worthy of being protested.   (I  would also cited his seeming deranged citations of various conspiracy theories including birtherism, JFK assassination conspiracies, “something going on with Obama and Orlando” as well as his promises to gut the First Amendment.)   I can’t prove this to you, but I vote straight ticket Republican and can’t vote for Trump.  This goes beyond right and left.

      • dr. bill says:

        David, thank you.  since i live in NJ, my vote is of little significance.  if i lived in florida or ohio, i would have to think hard.  for what it is worth, terrorism, the supreme court, and the escalating movement towards political correctness might force me to vote for “the Donald.”  my only consolation is that the second place finishers – cruz and sanders – would have been yet worse.

      • Jake says:

        Cruz – worse?! That’s a ridiculous statement. Cruz would have been much better than Trump. he is a strong leader, stands with Israel, is articulate, etc. etc. It’s a shame he got beat by someone like Trump.

      • mycroft says:

        Jake Cruz played the anti-Semitic card in Iowa when he referred to NY values. Close to 40 years ago I spent close to two weeks in Iowa for work and my boss warned me that if someone refers to. New York it is an euphemism for Jews. Cruz attempted to use classic code words about Jews where it was politically beneficial. Al tiftichu bindivin

      • Jake says:

        mycroft – for sure, but ok, that’s one example. i never said he was perfect. do you really want to compare cruz to trump overall in terms of inappropriate statements – ?

      • mycroft says:

        Jake Trump is an embarrassment I agree. IMO probably less dangerous because to quote my wife on reading the NYTimes on Trump when he appeared on a “wrestling”pay that is what Trump belongs in

      • R.B. says:

        Bernie Sanders would be more dangerous to Jews and the US than Trump. This IS about left and right because those opposed to Trump on the left (not talking about moderate Republicans) didn’t see Bernie as a real threat. Today, it is the political left more than the right where anti-semitism is festering, especially with its soft spot for Islam. At least Trump recognizes the danger of Islamism.

      • Reb Yid says:

        Trump’s supporters sadly include anti-semites.  They actually had to shut down an on-line chat during the Convention yesterday when there was a Jewish speaker due to heavy anti-semitic remarks coming from Trump supporters.  Jewish reporters have also been harrassed during his campaign by some of his supporters.

         

        God forbid Trump should ever apologize to any individuals or groups that he or his supporters have disparaged or threatened.

      • mycroft says:

        Islamic terror is left terror? They are religious fundamentalists with similar hashkafot in many respects to other fundamentalists-that is left.

    • Steve Brizel says:

      Look at the alternative-We are presented the option of the election of a former First Lady who has accomplished nothing as a US Senator. Her chief accomplishment is the faithful execution of Obama’s naive foreign policy,. On the domestic front, this same candidate  supports a massive expansion of the regulatory-welfare state and who has adopted the radical left view of crime despite the fact that the overwhelming number of inner city crimes involve minority against minority and the resolute failure of the liberal community to address the root causes- the one parent family, the celebration  of misogyny in popular culture and the cultural degradation of family, work and education as ways to improve oneself and viewing Caucasian America as inherently racist.

  5. Steve Brizel says:

    R Gordimer pointed out that the bullying of R Lookstein  was in no small part by an electronic petition by many who identified themselves as Ramaz alumni and who exhibited the kind of liberal-left group think and intolerance of opposing views that R Fischer has been writing about in his posts. Read the comments on the petition  and you will see absolutely nothing aboput Am Yisrael, Medinat Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael as opposed to expressions of horror about Trump and his purported views, and more than a few who engaged in Onaas Devarim about a Ger and absolutely no sympathy for the war on police officers which will be condoned at the Democratic Convention by the appearance of speakers who don’t believe that all lives matter.

    • Reb Yid says:

      Trump is a horror for very many people.  You may or may not think so but that does not give you the right to dictate to others what to believe or think.   It is our right–indeed, our obligation as Americans living in a democracy–to make our protests known (nonviolently, of course, under normal circumstances).

      The fact that a rabbi would be associated with this convention–even to simply deliver an invocation–could be viewed by many as guilt by association, no matter how apolitical Rav Lookstein is or how much of a musar schmooz you think he could give (hard to think of how, however, given that his congregant’s father is the nominee).

      Look, even in within the Republican Party there are many supporters that are simply not at the Convention because they do not wish to associate themselves with their party’s Presidential nominee.  Al achat kama v’kama the Ramaz community which is far more diverse would have serious issues with an appearance by Rav Lookstein whose values they see as their own.

      Rav Lookstein was thankfully wise enough to see that this became a contentious issue and backed off.  Would that some of the Republican political figures do the same instead of doubling down any time their judgement is questioned.  Really, Hillary Clinton was somehow responsible for the Melania Trump debacle.  Denial aint just a river in Egypt, you know.

      Leave your other diatribes in your response, many of which are equally offensive, out.  Each of them need to be answered in time.  For now, please heed the advice of this thread and be careful with your words.

      • Steve brizel says:

        Let’s agree that Trump is crude and advocates policies that are intolerable to the left.  Yet if diversity is a purported hallmark of progressive thought,the petition against R Lookstein was remarkable for its groupthink and utter lack of concern for the police and the State of Israel and Am Yisrael

      • Reb Yid says:

        That is a very curious reading of the petition.  It does not take any position at all regarding the structural injustices of the criminal justice system that frequently result in minorities being abused (or worse) by the police, as well as minority males disproportionately occupying the prison cells of the US while white collar criminals and policemen who kill unarmed civilians rarely go to jail for their offense.  It also does not mention anything regarding civilians who are targeting policemen.

        If you are truly concerning about the State of Israel, you should be quite worried about Mr. Trump.  He has broken away quite a few times from the Republican “Orthodoxy” on Israel statements.  If he were a Democratic candidate, and be honest with yourself here, you would be all over him for these statements.  I’m no huge fan of Hillary, and in fact her foreign policy is far too hawkish for my taste, but her consistency on this point is something that right wing folks like you ought to feel much more comfortable with that the wild card and con man that is Trump.

      • Steve Brizel says:

        Reread the petition. It is replete with rhetoric that denounces the criminal justice system as racist with no words of sympathy for the assassination of police officers. There is nothing in any of the posters that displays any knowledge of the well documented fact that inner city crime is largely perpetrated by minorities on minorities and the dysfunctional family structure that leads to the same.

      • dr. bill says:

        “intolerable to the left”??  ONLY TO THE LEFT????? well i guess the entire world (ryan, bush, gingrich, to name a few) is overwhelmingly left! I hope we don’t tilt off our orbit.

         

      • Steve Brizel says:

        The two nominees strike me as presenting a terrible choice. Yet, I cannot support a candidate whose record as a senator was a blank with respect to her sponsoring any legislation, and whose record as a secretary of state can best be described as the faithful execution of Obama’s dangerously naive foreign policy.

      • dr. bill says:

        non-sequitur.  we were not talking about HRC.

      • chaim7356 says:

        Rabbi Lookstein has been a leader of Modern Orthodoxy for his entire career. He surely has the expertise to exercise his own judgement in considering whether to deliver an invocation at this year’s RNC. However, you, Reb Yid, and others of the rabbi’s flock arrogate to themselves the right  to  disagree with his judgement, and to publicly  castigate him for his choice. Yet when the Israeli Chief Rabbinate seeks validation for some of the conversions done by Rabbi Lookstein, then suddenly he is  is the soul of probity for you and your friends, and any attack on him is an attack on everything holy. You can’t have it both ways….

         

         

      • mycroft says:

        One could argue the reverse Rabbi Lookstein who has been part of family that for a century has  been Giants in the Orthodox world has positions to the left of most Orthodox Rabbis-see eg his attending interfaith  prayer gatherings in a church. What would the chances of a Rabbi wo access to the powerful that are in his community of having his gerus accepted with even close to his ideas. that does not mean that I wouldn’t daven in his schul-decades ago a couple of times a year for a change my wife and I walked across the park to hear him.

        I would accept his gerus but people who are much more traditional are routinely challenged and don’t have the proteksia to successfully win a battle.

      • chaim7356 says:

        So you would accept his gerus – but not his invocation…

      • mycroft says:

        There is a low test to accept gerus-certainly he is not guilty of obvious Halachik violations that Barry Freundel was. Once you accept Freundels gerus how could one in honesty say almost anyone else is not trustworthy.

      • mycroft says:

        I personally come from the school that holds one is not permitted to enter a non Jewish house of worship but I am aware there are others who have held much more liberal certainly lessor chef Rabbim.

  6. Jake says:

    I challenge the author’s assumption that Trump cares that someone protested him or whatever. Trump says whatever comes to his head at the time and changes his mind constantly. I do not think he will remember what R Hertzfeld yelled at AIPAC or that R Lookstein didn’t attend the convention, etc. etc. Trump himself says crazy things, but never takes responsibility for them. Why should he care about what someone else said? The Rubio/Cruz stuff is behind him, kal v’chomer this other small stuff…

    In fact, perhaps Trump respects and admires someone that speaks their mind!

    Is the author asking all Jewish figures to blindly accept and applaud whatever the candidates say?

    • Avrohom Gordimer says:

      For sure, people should speak their minds and vigorously debate the issues. But they should do so civilly. When it degenerates to nasty ad hominem attacks and denigration, it is a real problem and a potential liability.

      • mycroft says:

        Ad hominem attacks against OO  or MO or Conservative/Reform or Chareidi Rabbis should not be done.

  7. Steve Brizel says:

    https://www.change.org/p/ramaz-school-rabbi-lookstein-you-may-speak-for-trump-but-not-in-our-name/c I invite any and all interested to read the comments-this is”progessive”  group thought at its worst.

    • Reb Yid says:

      Once again– there are no references at all to the criminal justice system. There are plenty of superb observations and critiques but that is simply not one of them. What passages in your view are about the criminal justice system?

      • Reb Yid says:

        I am referring to the letter itself. Perhaps you are referring to the online comments?

      • Steve brizel says:

        Read the comments. The comments exhibit progressive left wing group think at its worst. There are loads of comments on racism mysogony , torture, etc without a single ccomment in sympathy for assassinated police officers and the state of Israel and the Jewish People.

      • dr. bill says:

        why would someone addressing Rabbi Lookstein appearing at the RNC that is endorsing Trump, talk about Israel or assassinated police officers?  does that make Trump’s comment less misogynous?  i might vote for trump as the lesser of two evils but that is not mitahair a nevailah temaiah

        i feel bad for rabbi lookstein.  sadly, as rabbis of all stripes age their ability to examine things with the required objectivity and perspective can fall prey to intuitive judgments.

        I respect rabbi genack and rabbi lookstein. i totally trust their decisions on kashrut and geirut respectively; on politics, not so much.

      • Reb Yid says:

        I think you somewhat miss the point by not paying any attention at all to the actual letter itself, which is what Rav Lookstein responded to–not the comments, which presumably he never saw.

  8. Bob Miller says:

    It seems that the only corrective to prevent many Jews from voting for this ghastly and hostile Democratic Party is the Geulah Sheleimah.

  9. Steve brizel says:

    Mycroft I think that the average American could care less about OCED studies and similar studies which seek to turn the US into Spain or Greece.

    • mycroft says:

      OECD for your info is a group that if anything does the bidding of multinational corps-compare their model tax treaties which have a great influence they basically exist to enable multinationals to skirt taxation. Thus Lee Shepherd one of the leading tax analysts has given lectures to many foreign countries about avoiding the OECD model treaties

      OECD data is respected I thought universally-but I guess wrong. Maybe the average American couldn’t care about objective data-here is a case where I can answer a frequent challenge of data please.

      • Steve Brizel says:

        If the American quality of life was so poor, why is the US viewed as a near universal mecca for immigrants-because of the political freedoms and opportunities that are unique to the US.

  10. Reb Yid says:

    It is quite telling that Rabbi Gordimer chooses to castigate an OO rabbi for his alleged inappropriate behavior at Trump’s AIPAC speech instead of Trump’s “Hillary Clinton–Boo” and rousing applause that ensued.

    It is quite challenging to take the manifest purpose of his threads seriously, until one realizes that the true latent purpose is to cast aspersions upon progressive rabbis, no matter how much of a reach the examples may be.

    • Avrohom Gordimer says:

      The point of my article is that *Jews* should not be acting with nastiness and expressing ad hominem disparagement toward elected officials (even if objectively justified), as it can be quite damaging to the Jewish community. It is a given that general political society may do all types of outrageous things, but I refer here to *Jews* acting that way in a public manner.

      • mycroft says:

        I agree with Rabbi Gordimers point and would note that Rabbi Shafran I believe has made that point repeatedly on CC. Of course, that applies to all candidates left and right.

      • Reb Yid says:

        But it was precisely the mostly Jewish AIPAC crowd, including a noticeable Orthodox contingent, that gave Trump its raucous approval.

        This was a terrible embarrassment not only for AIPAC, which prides itself on being bipartisan, but for the Jewish community as a whole.

      • Steve Brizel says:

        Can’t wait to see the pictures of a minyan davening Mincha after hearing from such important personae as Sanders and the members of a group who don’t believe that all lives matter.

      • Reb Yid says:

        Speaking of which–the striking silence of all the circle the wagon politicians on what happened in North Miami this week is quite telling

        the outrageous statement by the police union is all too familiar.  And who wants to bet that no policeman will serve any jail time. Again. All too typical

         

        what happened with the police shootings is tragic. But the far more prevalent activity is what happens when the police are allowed to get away with anything including in some cases murder

         

         

         

         

  11. mycroft says:

    Steve The Rav repeatedly was upset about how the American Jewish community acted during the holocaust-including especially the frum community. Note that he left Agudah during WW II to Mizrachi essentially because of dissatisfaction. Vaad Hatzalah was essentially Agudah. One year the Vaad spent more money on subsidies to Yeshivas students in Shanghai than all they spent on rescue. Certified statement by frum accountants Septimus and Co  during war show that.

    Inefficiencies before Mike Tress took over are expressed essentially the same way in Art Scroll bio on Mike Tress.

    It was not merely Zuroff but the Lubavitch Rebbe also was upset at saving of booiks rather than people. Zuroff also points out that the March on the White House by Rabbonim was essentially the only one of its type a positive chareidi  staement.

    • Steve Brizel says:

      Why shouldn’t spending money on yeshiva students in Shanghai, many of whom became great Talmidei Chachamim, be viewed as rescue? One looks in vein for any evidence of any rescue attempts by any other group after war broke out after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Weren’t RYBS’s “Chamesh Drashos” given to Mizrachi during the 1950s? Any documentation of RYBS’s leaving Agudah during WW2? Didn’t RYBS participate in the Vaad Hatzalah march on Washington?

  12. Steve Brizel says:

    For a critique of OCED wishful thinking on education issues, see the following linked letter .https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/06/oecd-pisa-tests-damaging-education-academics

  13. Steve Brizel says:

    For another view on OCED, see the following linked articlehttp://www.cato.org/blog/no-more-subsidies-oecd-american-taxpayers

  14. Steve Brizel says:

    Guess which convention had delegates flying the PA flag and spectators outside the convention hall burning Israeli flags and yelling “Intifada”?

  15. mycroft says:

    “no concept of public rallies in support of European Jewry in the same way as there was on Soviet Jewry and for Israel today.”

    A MYTH PERPETRATED ESPECIALLY BY SOME “ACTIVISTS”

    al regel achat  http://untappedcities.com/2015/03/27/today-in-nyc-history-the-1933-rally-against-hitler-at-madison-square-garden/

    March 1 — An estimated 75,000 people show up at a “Stop Hitler Now” rally in Madison Square Garden. Only 20,000 can get in. (1943)

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocaust/timeline/index_3.html

    Could more have been done? Maybe-but remember theUS was fighting a war atthe time-Protests against Soviet Union had at least tacit approval from US government

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