The North Carolina Legal Battle and the Its Larger Message for the Jewish People

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13 Responses

  1. mycroft says:

    I would be more interested in an article North Carolina and Its larger Message to the Jewish Community. Start with a Jewish population of 32000  and compare with the list of synagogues

    It should cause one to at least question Orthodox triumphalism often implied by some commentators.



  2. Bob Miller says:

    The message is that societies around the world, including many we live in during our exile, are deteriorating morally, faster and faster.  This exposes us more and more to their rotten ideas.  It also makes our Jewish mission to perfect the world in its recognition of HaShem’s kingship, by our positive example, both more challenging and more timely.

  3. Eli Blum says:

    For journalistic accuracy, I believe that even under the NC bill, if someone underwent the process of filing for a change in birth certificate (as in the NYC link), they would then be allowed to use the restroom for that biological body type, even if their actual body type is still the other one.

    In addition, if something did need to be filed to verify gender change, that would remove many of the concerns regarding privacy and peeping toms, which is certainly a valid point.

    Finally, for a quote attributed to Lenin:

    “A lie, told often enough, becomes the truth


  4. Robbie says:

    There’s so much wrong here it’s hard to know where to begin. It’s clear the author has no idea of the realities transgender people face or deal with on a daily basis. It’s also clear the author has no idea what being transgender really is, or how it works. It’s also clear that the author is selectively choosing to employ Talmudic principles, as he chooses to ignore the fact that even our own tradition recognizes 6 distinct genders and not just two.

    I’m also curious, based on what this author has implied, what he’s doing in the bathroom. Is he examining other people’s genitals? Is he peeking under stall doors? Is he staring inappropriately at the urinal?

    Does the author understand that there has never been a single recorded case in the US of a transgender person using a bathroom for anything other than relieving themselves? That the worries of attacks and threats are nothing more than an attempt to cause damage to others?

    The only people whose privacy and safety is at risk are the transgender people who just want to pee in peace and quiet.

    • R.B. says:

      “…6 distinct genders and not just two”.

      Complete rubbish and nonsense! It is you who are picking and choosing Talmudic principles.

      Halacha only recognizes two genders, and tumtum, androgeneous, sris, and eilonis are not genders or any type of sex. These four other scenarios involves various halachic categorizations, and all of which involve actual physical distinctions which are either present at birth or are latent, such as the case of eilonis (According to CHAZAL Sorah Imeinu was an Eilonis! and she was certainly a woman), not what we call gender today, which has become a social construct.



    • rd says:

      You are an example of drowning in the Kool Aide of PC.   Transgenderism is documented by the notable psychiatric dept. at Johns Hopkins University as “gender dysphoria” which is a psychiatric disorder.  These people suffer from severe mental illness, not discrimination.  For you to insist that they suffer discrimination indicates either you  are naive,  seriously misinformed, or also rife with mental health issues.  Further, this piece is alarming because it shows the terrible similarities to ancient S’dom.    Time to wake out of your PC Kool-Aide induced malaise.

  5. “”Rarely do we publish essays in Cross-Currents that are meant to convince dissenters, and this is no different. Our conversation is with those who share the same axiology, and appreciate a bit of analysis based on the same axioms. What is apparent is just how far apart two different groups of people who call themselves Orthodox have drifted. We use the same texts (at times) and mouth the same words. But like people in the aftermath of the Tower of Bavel, we no longer speak the same language.”

    Perhaps the first half of this paragraph provides as a clue as to why the second half of the paragraph has come to pass. The desire for each ideological stream within Orthodoxy to create echo-chambers in which they never have to hear or take seriously another perspective, in which people dismiss anyone who doesn’t adhere to their very narrow definitions of Orthodoxy, creates a situation where we just talk past each other because we’re no longer speaking the same language. A more sincere effort to understand the perspectives from which people you oppose are coming from, instead of merely writing them off, and more concerted effort towards making Orthodoxy into a tent big enough for a variety of different kinds of people, would, I think, go a long way towards creating a situation where we can engage in productive dialogue that’s not merely shouting things at one another that seems self-evident to you. Maybe if you committed towards engaging in that sort of dialogue instead of merely preaching to choirs, we’d all be better off. 

  6. North Carolinian says:

    It’s my understand that there is no ‘registration process’ for transgender people. Thus, the problem people have is that anyone can claim anything.

  7. lacosta says:

    the part that r avi shafran does not mention , maybe because askanus forbids partisanship , is that the Supreme Court is one Democratic appointed leftist judge away from potentially banning certain non-PC practices  eg  milah,shechita, strict separation of sexes, denial of homosexual rights etc that are commonly known as basic tenets of O Judaism.    The difficult choice :  voting for the Welfare Party , that enables current haredi/kollel  lifestyle, may ultimately lead to the practical illegalization of said religion…..

  8. Steve Brizel says:

    Standing up for Kedoshim Tihiyu ( especially as understood by Ramban) should never be confused with “Orthodox triumphalism.”

  9. SA says:

    Well, if we “cannot abandon our values and the Land that were gifted to us,” and if the land where Cross-Currents is based is showing signs of conducting itself like Sdom and Amora, aren’t there some practical conclusions to be drawn?


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