What Do They Really Think About Us?

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11 Responses

  1. cvmay says:

    chareidi hasbara has been a total failure — This should be rephrased as “ANY/All HASBARA from ISRAEL has been a total failure” – whether its from the Israeli Government, Yishuvim, Dati Leumi World, Charedi Educators & Leaders, HASBARA is not the topic that Israeli (or Jews) are equipped and trained for.

    Over Pesach we hosted religious (to give a label – Mafdal-lite) guests from Givat Mordechai area of Yerushalayim. We discussed many subjects, political issues, Israeli personalities, Rabbis/Teachers, etc. They have lived in Givat Mordechai for over 15 years, they never heard of the Chevron Yeshiva (which is in Givat Mordechai), they davened in a community shul with Rav Amital zt”l(of the Gush) who was a resident there and were not aware of most burning Charedi issues. These people are sabras and quite well-connected.

  2. Benshaul says:

    I can only reiterate my comment that I posted on another article here in CC. While watching the lev la’achim kinus http://www.sharelive.tv/sharlive_Heb/sl27822.html the panel is asked “what about all the hatred of the charedim”? At 19:33 Rav Neugorshcal begins to answer and at 20:18 he says explicitly that the only ones who claim the Israeli public hate the charedim is the newspapers, including the charedi media. He goes on to offer a perhaps cynical take on why that is so, but it is also clear that he feels strongly about the subject, and is upset about the charedi media’s slant. What is perhaps even more telling is that BOTH of the other panelists agree with him.

  3. micha says:

    Thw second finding is a xconsequence of the first. If you don’t speak to the actual audience, but to a misconception of who they are, the real audience isn’t likely to listen. Both your message and your format is unlikely to appeal.

  4. Steve Brizel says:

    I thought that the poll numbers were fascinating and demonstrative of a simple fact-outside of the secular media and academic world in Israel, there is a favorable view of Charedim by the traditional/secular rank and file.

  5. Steve Brizel says:

    One wonders what the results of a MO/RZ poll vis a vis Charedim or the opposite would be-both in Israel and the US.

  6. Y. Ben-David says:

    Rav Rosenblum-
    It greatly pains me to have to write this, but I do hope you will read this. You have been an articulate defender of Israel in your writings and you have expressed views not always heard among Haredi spokesmen pointing areas needing improvement regarding Haredi relations with the non-Haredi Jewish world. I was present when you spoke at the Yeshivat Darchei Noam-Shappel Yom Iyun in the summer of 2002 and you frankly admitted that there were areas of Haredi policy that you disagreed with. I was also very impressed at your praise for Yoni Netanyahu’s writings which not all Haredim would admit to being that Yoni was not religious, but who did have a passionate love for the Jewish people.

    Therefore, I was deeply shocked and troubled at the article you wrote here claiming that there was “credible evidence” that anti-Nazi protest actions initiated by various non-Orthodox and Zionist groups early in Hitler’s regime (in 1933) are what made Hitler yimach shmo decide to annihalate the Jewish people. You are a well-read and well-educated person so I am certain that you know this makes no sense whatsover. I wrote a comment at Rav Slifkin’s “Rationalish Judaism” site pointing out that Hitler killed close comrades like Ernst Rohm long before the Holocaust when it suited him, and he also murdered other close associates, particularly at the end in the Fuhrerbunker. He also ordered the murder thousands of mentally and physically handicapped non-Jewish Germans. He even ordered the destruction of Germany itself because he felt they had lost the right to live since they let him down by losing the war. Mass murder was already proven to be acceptable to him. Thus, already I was aware that the this claim you made is nonsensicle. Yes, I know that radical Neturei Karta and Satmar propgandists have made these claims for decades, but I was surprised that someone, like yourself, who is affiliated with the mainstream Agudat Israel trend would put out something like this.
    Your piece has now brought me to read Ian Kershaw’s biography “Hitler-Hubris: 1889-1936”, which is today accepted as one of the primary sources for biographical information on Hitler. He points out that Hitler was already expressing genocidal antisemitism as far back as when he first went into politics in 1919. In Mein Kampf, which he wrote in 1924, he compares Jews to germs that must be exterminated and that the Jews were the enemies of civilization and mankind itself. Thus, whether or not he had an actual plan for the Holocaust that early is irrelevant…the idea was already there. However, Kershaw points out that Hitler didn’t even invent any of these ideas….they were around already in the late 19th century. Thus, to go even farther, the idea among many Jews prior to World War II that something like the Holocaust was “unthinkable” or that no one believed such a thing was possible could only be maintained if one was totally oblivious to the poisonous antisemitism that existed throughout Europe at the time and that the horrors of mass murder in Europe that happened before the Holocaust were unknown to them.
    I am sure you are aware that it was mobs in Paris screaming “death to the Jews” in Paris during the Dreyfus Affair of the 1890’s that shook Herzl out of his Jewish assimiliationist dreams and moved him in the direction of Zionism. Are you aware the tens of thousands of Jews were killed during the Russian Civil War that followed the Bolshevik Coup-Revolution of 1917? Then there was the mass killing of something like 1.5 Million Armenians in the First World War. Stalin starved something like six million Ukrainians in the early 1930’s as well as killing millions more of Soviet citizens in his Five-Year Plan and farm collectivization and anti-Kulak campaigns, all of this in the first half of the 1930’s at at time when the US was opening diplomatic relations with the USSR and the New York Times and other journalists were covering up his actions. Thus, mass killing was something Europe was accustomed to, and keeping quiet about long before the Holocaust.
    It didn’t take a genius or a prophet to realize that the old Torah centers of Lithuania, Poland and Hungary of the inter-war period, being squeezed between two bloodthirsty tyrant, Hitler in the West and Stalin in the East, were facing annihilation. Even if the the Holocaust had not occurred, but the Second World War had played out they way it finally did, their communities would have been overrun by the Red Army and all the Torah institutions would have been liquidated, as happened in Lithuania after it was invaded by the USSR in June 1940 and the Soviet-occupied zone in Poland in 1939.

    Thus, cynical comments like there being “credible evidence” that a “not-so-bad” Hitler was pushed to go “all the way” by people and groups the Haredi community has always been hyper-critical of can only be interpreted as nothing more than propaganda and are premised on assuming that the readers are not aware of the plethora of facts available of which some I have outlined above.
    I became observant at around the same time you did, in the 1970’s while I was a student in University in Southern California. I was always impressed with the concept of TORAT EMET, the truth and nothing but the truth and so I can only say, with deep regret, that I can no longer attribute credibility to a writer who views the principle of “the ends justify the means” as overriding this priniciple, in this case defending certain Haredi ideological concepts. I simply can not believe someone like you really only wants to be viewed as merely a propagandist.

    With deep regret at having to write this, I remain,

    Y. Ben-David
    Rehovot

  7. cohen y says:

    Y.ben david,
    Deny what you will.
    Preponderance of evidence concludes further that the nazis committed themselves to the policy of extermination only once the WZO, WJC, and Jewish Agency cajoled allied govts to nix the Madagascar Plan and another 7 Other plans of resettlement (e.g.Western Australia,Tasmania,Surinam..)

  8. cohen y says:

    J Rosenblum,
    If you have followed the Donald Sterling saga a bit,
    Then read how it was portrayed in Israel’s media (they chose to skip his salient comparison to white jews and black jews),you will begin to grasp how they reconfigure the masses mental territory

  9. Bob Miller says:

    If somebody is still open to persuasion it’s best not to kick them in the teeth.

  10. c-l,c says:

    In the end this column and others are little more than pipe dreams.

    Those who predominate society from on top

    a.continue to pay but little heed (and occasional lip service) to the aspirations of the benighted working public

    b.have a need for an eternal “other”
    (Review,for example, your very first column in Mishpacha magazine.)

    So,it’s all moot ,and has been for eons.

    Still,many commenters have consistently charged in the past that Charedim (are responsible for) have made themselves disdained and disliked by the mainstream public that is/was proven false.

  11. c-l,c says:

    “chareidi hasbara has been a total failure —

    Completely in agreement.

    To Be Done uncompromisingly ,unfazed, yet eloquent

    ‘This should be rephrased as “ANY/All HASBARA from ISRAEL has been a total failure” – whether its from the Israeli Government, Yishuvim, Dati Leumi World, Charedi Educators & Leaders, HASBARA is not the topic that Israeli (or Jews) are equipped and trained for.”‘

    Less than full accord on this.

    The Left (,and certain elements of Dati society) have long done superbly well.

    But therein lies an old problem in many countries

    (p.s. Careful to avoid falling for forked tongues and blandishments e.g.the Kiryat Ono speech)

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