The Price We Pay For Contempt

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24 Responses

  1. Harry Zeitlin says:

    This is very important. We need to take responsibility for all our people, כל ישראל ערבים זה בזה. It’s not just a matter of inspiring secular Jews to find value in our traditions, but to inspire all of us, charedim included, to try to live up to the ideal middot we talk about.

  2. Baruch Gitlin says:

    Great article, and an example of how much more useful it is, when attacked by the media and others, to consider what they are saying and whether there may be something we can hear and learn from, rather than taking an automatically defensive attitude. Although I think this is a well-known story, I think it is worth mentioning how a nun came to Rav Yaakov Kamenetski’s funeral, and when asked why she was there, responding by telling of how Rav Kameneski used to greet her every morning, even though they were strangers to each other.

  3. yehudis says:

    Rabbi Adlerstein, I normally find that that my views closely echo your own, but here I think that you are missing some nuance just by virtue of not living on the scene.
    I live at the end of Meah Shearim, in an area that is suffused by churches and monasteries, all along Shivtei Yisrael Street. Over the years, the Romanian Orthodox church on my corner has been the focus of some problems. We even had a Jewish child forcibly detained in their courtyard, with no later follow up by the police (thank you Micky for being honest about the Jerusalem police’s unwillingness to make waves with the churches). Several years back, the nuns and monks began a campaign of being very friendly with the hundreds of children who play in our street, offering candy, etc., and this required a response.
    I tell the children here to just ignore them, to be respectful but to keep distance, and not to do anything that will cause a chilul Hashem. But part of the hostility on this side is because the children perceive them to be a threat.
    [Doesn’t help that 80% of the kids’ comics in Hebrew involve sagas of Jewish children kidnapped by evil monks.] And here in Jerusalem, the clergy of Orthodox churches go in full black regalia, for the most part; it’s threatening costume that conjures negative images.
    The prospect of promoting friendly goodwill with the church here is ill-advised; I would love [hate] to bring you to see what Sunday [and Shabbosim] look like in the missionary centers right here in Yerushalayim [one right near Shaarei Chessed], where Israelis come to learn the wonderful lessons of our daughter religion.
    My daughter had friends who come from poor families offered compensation and warm winter clothing by very friendly missionaries circulating in Meah Shearim. Please do not be blithe.

    [The issue of missionizing is a serious one. Surely, though, you don’t believe that its solution is to spit at Christian clergy. That is not going to get them to stop. Nor are frum kids who are doing the spitting the chief targets of missionaries; they already know to stay away.

    Until Moshiach comes bb”y, Israel can only survive bederech hateva as a democracy. That means allowing missionaries to do their thing, and working harder to make their pitch ineffective by better education and social services. As early as over a century ago, well-funded mission societies operating in Yerushalayim lamented the fact that they could show nothing more than a handful of converts for all their effort. In Chu”l we have no choice but to resist proselytizing by assuming more responsibility in making Jews less likely targets for proselytizing. As I wrote, there is galus in Israel as well.

    Actually, the above is not quite true. There have been successful attempts at limiting and curbing mission activities. Several church groups have been convinced through years of conversation with Jews that several forms of proselytizing are offensive, and they have dropped them. These forms included employing missionaries disguised as Jews, preaching a hybrid Jewish-Christian religion, and using economic bait. Clearly, not all groups have desisted, but some have – and that is an accomplishment.

    Need I point out that those responsible for the change in behavior are people who interact respectfully with them, not those who spit at them?]

  4. Sentient says:

    “Strange looking garb”? Are you *** VERY SURE *** you want to go there? And I’m not EVEN talking about the conehead burka babes – just the regular charedim. Oy!

  5. DD says:

    Perhaps the first thing we should do is to admit that the orthodox world (including national religious and Haredim) has become large enough to incorporate significant pockets of extremism and to realize that the sane, moderate voices such as yours do not penetrate the thick walls of insularity present in these communities.
    We should protest the chillul Hashem that they do but I doubt our words or actions will do much to change their behavior.

  6. Menachem Lipkin says:

    Another home run! Soon I’m going to stop asking nicely… we desperately need your voice of reason over here! More and more this behavior has become the “language” of fanatics of all stripes. The ranks of reasonable leadership are becoming frightfully thin and without people like you it’s very possible fanaticism will overwhelm us all.

    [All I need is gainful employment, and a neighborhood where I could fit in. I could try enrolling in a kollel (which I would love to do), but would probably get turned down on the grounds of possessing a computer…]

  7. David F. says:

    “Do we first show contempt for the person who uses/does not use the eruv, and then extend it with a kal v’chomer to non-Jews, and then even further with another kal v’chomer to non-Jews who hold theological beliefs we oppose with heart and soul?”

    Rabbi A.,

    While I have no quibble with your argument, I find it difficult to swallow this example. Considering the incessant criticizing of Haredim that goes on here and to a much greater degree elsewhere, perhaps some other examples could have been cited as well just for balance. Here’s a possibility – “Do we first show contempt for one who wishes to insist on a stricter hechsher, and then extend it to non-Jews who walk barefoot down rocky Jerusalem streets?” Criticism of our own goes both ways.

  8. Harry Maryles says:

    If only your words were heard by the people who need to hear them. Especially their rabbinic leaders!

  9. Dov says:

    Great article – totally hits a huge issue on the head.

    It’s important to realize that this is not just chareidim and not just religious jews. There was a study done about 10 years ago about hatred in Israel, and the University professors that ran it sat on the results for 2 years trying to reinterpret the data. Ultimately they had to face the fact that so-called Israeli liberals hated other groups of Israelis as much or more than people on the so-called right. Right hated left, left hated right, religious hated non-religious, non-religious hated religious. I think it’s fair to say that religious Jews should know better and hold ourselves to a higher standard as far as midos go. But’s it’s in no way exclusively a chareidi problem.

    It’s really easy to prop ourselves, and our kids, up by denigrading others. But ultimately it’s pretty pathetic if the only way we can feel good about ourselves is to bash others.

  10. James says:

    The problem did not subside because the strong statement from the Badatz was not accompanied by a change in attitude and education. Lehavdil, the PA makes strong statements all the time against terror but we all know that what really matters is what the children learn in school and what is preached when the press isnt listening.

  11. Dov says:

    It’s also worth thinking about how many of the “al chet’s” are regarding negative speech….

  12. Benshaul says:

    if you read the article, the Badat”z DID post a “strong statement” , but the people that need to hear it aren’t listening to them either.

  13. Eric Leibman says:

    Oh, good grief. Everybody stop over reacting. Ask the Badatz to issue another stern decree,assign some reserve officers to hang around those particular neighborhoods, catch some of the kids (or kids in adult bodies)who do this, write them some very wicked citations with heavy duty fines attached, and the problem should diminish. Especially if they get hit with fines and the police follow through on collecting the money, or giving the offender a night or two in the local jail.

  14. Shades of Gray says:

    “… would it not make more sense to speak of them as worthy of respect simply because they are endowed with an invaluable tzelem Elokim?”

    Two anecdotes on this, which balance each other out:

    Rabbi Simcha Feuerman relates(“Are “Gedolim Stories” Good for Chinuch”?”, available online):

    “…I was a yeshiva student, around the time that the Challenger Space Shuttle tragically blew up during liftoff. The mashgiah overheard one student callously commenting about the disaster, “It’s no big deal, after all, it’s just a bunch of goyim.” This spurred the mashgiah to deliver a fire and brimstone lecture, castigating the students for having so little empathy and regard for other humans who are b’tzelem elokim, in God’s image. Since I was already one of the older students in the yeshiva at that time, I had the temerity to share with the mashgiah something that was troubling me about his talk.

    I told him the following: “This mussar is compelling and I certainly intend to heed your wise words. However, I am not sure why those students should be blamed for their attitude because I cannot recall many instances in my yeshiva career that persons in authority said a kind word about goyim.” The idea of basic decency and empathy for those outside our circle was simply not stressed in any of our learning, despite the mashgiah’s outrage and assumption that “we should all know better.” Of course, he was correct, but in fact, we did not know better.

    On positive note, R. Shlomo Gertzulin of Agudah related after the Siyum HaShas(quoted in either Ami or Mishpacha):

    “…The kiddush Hashem that resulted from the interaction with the police officers was unbelievable. “Someone called me yesterday to tell me that as he was passing through Secaucus Junction [train station] on the way home, he saw one of the state troopers standing there with a card and a pen. People were going over to him and he was making notes. “This person went over to him and asked him what he was doing. He said, ‘I’m marking down everyone who says “Thank You” to me.’ Then he said, ‘I know you all are coming from Giants Stadium, but in my eyes, you guys are the real giants.’

    What the second story shows is that one can’t generalize. Different people will internalize chinuch experiences, or Chazal’s differently, whether on this topic or on any other issue.

  15. cvmay says:

    “A monastery in Israel is desecrated, almost certainly by nationalist extremist” – It has been found in 9/10 of the cases that Nationalist JEWS (mitnachalim – settlers)have had nothing to do with these Price Tag violent actions. For example, the destruction of an Arab cemetary in Jaffa was found to have been committed by Arabs themselves. The Arabs were hoping that Settlers would be investigated and jailed. Ransacking and destroying property of Arabs are blamed on Nationalist Extremists — and that is an unfair assumption and in most cases DOWNRIGHT inaccurate.

  16. Nachum says:

    Let’s just be clear on what Michael Ben-Ari did: He, like every other member of the Knesset, received a Hebrew New Testament in the mail as part of a missionary effort. Outraged, he tore it up, and it was filmed. He didn’t exactly go into a church and start destroying Bibles.

  17. Whoa nelly says:

    UMordechai lo yochreh vlo yishtachaveh.

    It is clear who are the oichlay seudas achashveirosh here.

  18. YS says:

    Terrific piece. I agree with every word.

    Unfortunately, don’t we all realize that the attitudes you described are a direct result of the contempt with which non-Jews are held in much of traditional Torah literature, including Chumash?

    To me, this the real elephant in the room. It’s easy to say that these people should be treated with respect. But when our children learn that stealing from non-Jews is not quite as bad as stealing from Jews and that idol-worshippers are to be executed, what do we expect?

    My children learn in a Charedi Leumi school in Bet Shemesh. A science textbook listed the four kinds of life forms on Earth:

    1 – Plants
    2 – Animals
    3 – Humans
    4 – Jews

    [YA – But you can find compelling and persuasive Torah arguments in the opposite direction! As a parent, all you can do is expose your child to both – and let him/her know which resonates with you.]

  19. Bob Miller says:

    What’s the basic point of our being a light to the nations if we think the nations are unnecessary to HaShem’s plan and/or evil beyond repair?

  20. Mr. Cohen says:

    Having an attitude of contempt towards someone is one thing;
    letting them know it is quite another.
    The spitters are wicked fools.

    PS: Too many articles on this web site have comments closed.

  21. Joe Hill says:

    “This despite decades of support from many large numbers of Christians as the most reliable advocates for the Jewish State. How’s that for gratitude!”

    The Chareidim oppose the Jewish State themselves, so it is difficult to expect them to have gratitude to those who support it.

    [YA – Most charedim I know have a conflicted relationship with the idea of the Jewish State. OTOH, they will claim indifference or opposition to the theoretical existence of a secular state. At the same time, they are genuinely concerned and hawkish on the safety and security of that same state.]

  22. Josh Backon says:

    The phrase YESHUA KOF was daubed on the wall at the monastery. Apart from the fact that Muslims routinely refer to Jews as “monkeys” (KOFIM), the word YESHUA was used instead of YESHU. No dati person in his right mind would ever use the Xtian missionary term YESHUA. The police officer at the YACHBAL investigating the case (Rav Pakad Ninio) was totally clueless about the usage. Trust me: I spoke with him twice. Let’s just say that the police now think it was a leftist provocation (like many other “terrorist” attacks of TAG MECHIR). R. Adlerstein: you owe slicha u’mechila to many of us in Israel for this blood libel.

    [YA – Don’t shoot the messenger. I simply quoted what others were saying and what the world – accurately or not – believes. But next time that I get a call from the (friendly) dean of a Christian seminary asking how to explain the incident to colleagues, why don’t I hand out your phone number, and see if you can mollify them and maintain their respect and support? Maybe they will accept your version more readily.]

  23. David F. says:

    “The Chareidim oppose the Jewish State themselves”

    Who exactly is “The Charedim”? Neturei Karta? Those who live in Meah Shearim? Lakewood yungeleit? Boro Park Chassidim? Run of the mill frum Jews who identify as yeshivalite?
    Of that list, only a very small minority actually oppose the state itself. Perhaps they disagree with many of the tenets of Zionism which motivated the founding of the state, but in terms of supporting the Jewish state of Israel in just about every single regard, they score as high or higher than anyone. More Bnei Torah attend yeshivah and seminary in EY than anyone. The number who visit each Succos, summer, Pesach and just about anytime, is staggering. The amount of teffilos recited in yeshivos and “black-hat” shuls cannot possibly be tallied.
    Theological differences are hardly the yardstick by which to measure support.

  24. cvmay says:

    Ridicule & contempt has seeped into the Torah educationally system and into speeches, videos, recordings and lectures. It may have started innocently yet it has grown and blossomed out of control. If you ridicule “any segment, group, individual or nationality” it quickly becomes mockery, scorn, bullying and finally violent actions and behaviors. First in thoughts, then verbally or the written script and then the physical mode takes over.

    When two extremists from the Chassidic camp (Bet Shemesh & Meah Shearim) were found guilty of graffiti/destroying of property with horrific & distasteful language on the grounds of Yad V’Shem, they pointed to their hashkafa of anti-zionist extremism (found in sefarim, preached by their leadership, etc.) IOWs begin with Ridicule and contempt and the door is wide open to injuries and even murder.

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