Tisha B’Av – Back to Reality

You may also like...

13 Responses

  1. Bob Miller says:

    Is there a way to understand our continuing exile at this stage?   Collectively, we’re supposed to reverse it by removing its original causes, but more and more of us worldwide aren’t even conscious of what a Jew is, much less what a Jew needs to do.   How does the teshuvah of the serious Jews now inspire the others, who have left the fold, to do their own part?

    • mb says:

      Exile ended in Iyar 1948. Any Jew, anywhere in the world can go home. Exile now is a state of mind only, not a reality.

      • Bob Miller says:

        Did you eat the Korban Pesach this year?

        • mb says:

          Yes, afikomen.

          Besides your question is irrelevant, unless you are linking exile to  Temple worship only. I don’t.

          • Bob Miller says:

            How do you view the daily Amidah?  It charts a path to our redemption.  How many of the items can you check off now?

      • mycroft says:

        Certainly not to a lot of Yehudah vShomron even the State f Israel recognizes PA authority.

        • mb says:

          To Bob miller,

          Amidah?

          Most of them.

          So what?

          • Mark says:

            Anyone who thinks that the exile in ended in 1948, so that Yemenite children could get stolen from their parents and religious kids could have their peyos cut off by the welcoming government, has a very warped and misguided definition of redemption.

    • dr. bill says:

      why are you worried about others we can affect only minimally?

      if you understand this as a formula if A then B, i think you need to think again.  chazal gave us their judgement of what we should focus on.  for some of their statements, what they meant and why they chose those categories are difficult questions.   sinat chinom makes sense to me; shelo barchu batorah techilah does not.  i hope one day to understand; to date i am unable to discover what motivated that statement.

      ki lo machshevosai machshevosaichem tells me not to even try to think in such cosmic terms.

  2. david z says:

    I’ve never understood the claim that things were good when we had a bet hamikdash. First of all the claim about how good things were seem to all be about the first I’ve when there were open miracles. But there was never a time when bad things didn’t happen to good people. And unlike one rabbi here on kids angeles who talks about the urim vtumim every year. No. You could not ask the urim what school you’re learning disabled kid should go.

    We are missing something big as a nation something that made us proud to be Jews but it was no panacea and things weren’t better just because it was in existence. I am open to guidance on this fundamental question.

    • mycroft says:

      About a week ago I heard a shiur by my Rabbi about the loss of Beis Hamikdash and how things were better. I asked we had about 1000 years of a Beis Hamikdash-between first and second-how many of them were good years? He came back with Shlomo and maybe Joshiyahu. Serious historical question how much impact BM had on average Jew-how many were Oleh leregel? Look at Har habayis-beishamikdash clearly smaller-how big a space for example kol ham bazaars on Yom Kippur. This is not to take away from the lack of a Beis Hamikdash theologically-but how much impact did it have on average Jew?

      Maybe more than the impact of chages against Dr Shapiro. BTW I had trouble understanding the desire to attack him. I who do not know Dr Shapiro merely wrote how a talmid of the SE was impressed by the accuracy of the book on the SE -that unleashes charges that the book intends to revisionist in favor of a MO. It is much more likely that the constant attacks done to de legitimize MO by some attackers are a result of the old preachers notes on a sermon “week point yell like hell”

      it is far more likely historically that the current so called Centrist regime to use Prof Brills terminology are engaging in a exercise of revisionism not only on the RAv but on SE.  There was huge revisionism on SRH and also on RAv Kook. The revisionism is a challenge to Mesorah-we exist on an accurate menorah certainly one not changed to make all fit into standard constructs that fit everyone into current yeshiva world politics.

       

       

  3. mb says:

    To Mark,

    I specifically did not use the word “redemption”, which has, now at least, messianic connotations. I made no statement about Moshiach, nor the Temple, only about 1812 year  exile from the land. As far as the Yemenite children are concerned, you seem to be getting your information from NK and Satmar. The “missing” 1000 Yemenite children has been thoroughly investigated. See the 7 year Government study report, for example. But if you want to read about bad behaviour after “redemptions” I suggest you read the Torah. And then Nach to see what happened when they finally entered the land and the history of the next 8 centuries until the Babylonian exile. Then read a decent history book, including the Talmud, about the next 500 years. It’s not pretty reading. Yes, I repeat, exile ended in 1948, and this may just be the best 7 decades we have ever had there. Open your eyes, and your heart.

     

     

     

  4. Mark says:

    To mb,

    As far as the Yemenite children are concerned, you seem to be getting your information from NK and Satmar. The “missing” 1000 Yemenite children has been thoroughly investigated. See the 7 year Government study report, for example.

    Your information is wrong. There’s quite a hubbub in Israel right now over fully opening the classified files in that regard. MK Tzachi Hanegbi recently confirmed that the Yemenite children were kidnapped and their parents were told that they are dead.

    But if you want to read about bad behaviour after “redemptions” I suggest you read the Torah. And then Nach to see what happened when they finally entered the land and the history of the next 8 centuries until the Babylonian exile. Then read a decent history book, including the Talmud, about the next 500 years. It’s not pretty reading. Yes, I repeat, exile ended in 1948, and this may just be the best 7 decades we have ever had there. Open your eyes, and your heart.

    If your definition of exile is that any Jew who wants to can come live in Israel, that didn’t happen in 1948 – the Iron Curtain did not fall then. If your definition is that any Jew can come and live in Israel unmolested, that didn’t happen in 1948 either.

     

     

Pin It on Pinterest