Two On The Election

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22 Responses

  1. Sarah Elias says:

    A technical question – was Rabbi Alpert really born in 1917, as you wrote? That would have made him only 32 when he voted in 1949 and hardly an elderly man, as he writes in his diary.
    [YA – I was wondering the same thing. I just reproduced the original article.]

  2. dr. bill says:

    lest one get the wrong impression, listen to his talk at the rabbinical assembly in 2012 and particlarly his comment on the chazon ish and ben gurion.

    it is not just him, but as i told friends that even tzippi livni is sounding like a rebbitzen. however, their form of judaism is pluralistic.

    what has happened is really remarkable. the old generation of zionists had a nostalgic attachment to a religion they rejected. the new generation accepts a religion that they want to believe is important. the new group believes in the value of religion and will not allow a “tribe” to control it.

  3. joel rich says:

    Dr. Bill,
    and the question is, what is the chareidi response? A cage match or accomodation? The answer must become clear sooner or later.
    KT

  4. Shimon says:

    There is obviously a mistake here as he couldn’t have been born in 1917 since he describes his son as a big supporter of Herut. He isn’t speaking about a ten year old kid.

  5. Shimon says:

    On a more fundamental point, Rabbi Adlerstein, anyone who reads your posts can read between the lines, and see what you are getting at. Why don’t you just come out and say openly what you have been hinting at for a long time, namely, you are sick and tired of the close-mindedness and extremism in the charedi world, especially in Israel. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you have developed and grown, and you now see the problems of that community. Please, stop beating around the bushes and speak openly as R. Weinreb did.

    [YA – I am happy to go one-up on Brisk. The old adage was, “Not everything that is thought needs to be said. The first addition was, “And not everything that is said needs to be written.” Brisk added, “Not everything that is written needs to be published.” To which I am (not) happy to be mosif nofech misheli: “Not everything that is published need be explained.”

  6. Dovid Teitelbaum says:

    Shimon,
    Rabbi Alderstein already explained that in the Chareidi world one needs to read between the lines! It’s painful buts its true.

  7. lacosta says:

    the irony is that right now [ before the zionist soldier votes are counted] the haredi parties [ aguda with 7!?! ] balance lapid’s 19.

    unfortunately for them , ALL the major players believe in ‘nachnu naavor chalutzim’ to the army , and Lapid , it’s maybe his no 1

    issue. though the haredi parties need the mother’s milk of tax dollar inflow , they also need the government’s lassaiz faire [leave us alone!]

    on military service and educational content…. DAAS TORA was a major winner –in the numbers that followed maranan’s instructions and a major loser

    — in vetoing in word and action viable general solution to the national service issue …. let’s pray there will be a solution other than 1000’s injured in street demonstrations
    or spending their yeshiva years in jail……

  8. lacosta says:

    dr bill

    there are supposedly 38 religious knesset members . i looked at the pictures—
    2 rabbis with Lapid , 1 kippa with Livni ….. dati/haredi no longer need be a ‘fringe’…. achdus could have made them THE largest party

  9. dr. bill says:

    Joel Rich, Nevuah is (slightly) above my pay-grade. My suspicion is that UTJ leadership is between a rock and a hard place. OTOH Shas has changed positions in the past and will assert greater independence from the chareidi gedolim.

    with a likud, lapid, bennet coalition forming a core of 60-61 seats, anyone who joins from kadima, livni and shas will be a junior partner.

    imho, this may one day be seen as a day on which chareidim say hallel, while their leaders in UTJ mourn. in any event, the interests of charedim and UTJ will diverge.

    but i can be dead wrong or guilty of wishful thinking/dreaming.

  10. Josh Kahn says:

    That Yair Lapid speech was extremely effective and sensitively done. My estimation of his rhetorical and political skills just went through the roof. If he actually follows up on it with content to make IDF service accommodating to halacha, any counter argument is going to sound extremely venal.

  11. cvmay says:

    I am going to assume that Rav Moses Yekutiel Alpert lived in Yerushalayim and taught at Etz Chaim during the years 1917-1955. Wondering if he was a grand relative to Rav Nissan Alpert z”l of Far Rockaway?

  12. Daniel says:

    Lapid’s speech is incredible. I was a bit turned off in the beginning, but he more than made up for it. I’d likely have voted for him if I had been at that speech.

  13. Crazy Kanoiy says:

    Lapid had some valid points and the speech was most interesting. However he did come across rather stuck up and condescending when he said things like “you weren’t taught this or that” and “your parents wouldn’t let you do this or that” . He spoke like an egotistical individual who was lecturing what he believed to be naive and uneducated Chareidim.

  14. Baruch Dov says:

    I think the charedim are in trouble. In the past, there were two main blocks – Labor and Likud, divided mainly on the issue of land/peace/Arabs, etc. A party would edge out the other, and bring in the charedim to form a coalition. In this election, the security issue was relegated to the back burner and domestic, social and economic issues came to the fore. There are now enough seats to come together and form a coalition without the charedim (likely Likud-Lapid-Bennet-Kadima), and changing the conscription/exemption is going to be a number 1 priority.

    An important part of this change is Israeli society’s long overdue move away from ideological purity toward pragmatism. Bennet energized the dati leumi community because he is not an old-time Mafdalnik who talks all day about Rav Kook, geula, kedushat ha’aretz, and so on, but rather a businessman with a head on his shoulders who also believes in religious Zionism. And Lapid Jr., unlike his father, energized intelligent secular Israelis who realize that yelling and screaming about how bad the charedim are is not going to accomplish anything productive, and he has shown he is committed to tackling the charedi issue with tact, intelligence and realism.

    It’s hard to know tachlis what’s going to happen, but this rise of pragmatism and the trend away the traditional barking and shouting is IMHO a good thing.

  15. Baruch Gitlin says:

    Just want to express my appreciation for this very fine article. I also want to mention that I share “Shimon”‘s sentiments, but I loved Rabbi Adlerstein’s answer. I’m not necessarily satisfied by this answer, but I loved it anyway.

    [YA – I hope people realize that I am not satisfied with it either!]

  16. dr. bill says:

    lacosta, you write: “there are supposedly 38 religious knesset members . i looked at the pictures — 2 rabbis with Lapid , 1 kippa with Livni ….. dati/haredi no longer need be a ‘fringe’…. achdus could have made them THE largest party.”

    I say, God forbid. achdus would mean religious representation in all parties and no (so-called) religious parties at all.

  17. Lawrence Kaplan says:

    I also was very impressed with Lapid’s speech. I am curious how the Haredi students reacted.

  18. shmuel says:

    What Lapid doesn’t understand is that while the secular Jews now acknowledge that the state can’t exist without Charedim, Charedim do not admit the converse. Most Charedim believe that ultimately the secular will either (hopefully) do teshuva or get fed up and move out. As he said the secular ask themselves who needs to live in the midst of millions of hostile Arabs in and unbearable humidity unless they accept that G-d wants us there

  19. j. langer says:

    left unsaid is the worldwide media image of the ultra orthodox drain on the state underscored by outlets throughout the western world reinforced by this electorial campaign. i suspect this is just the start as we witness the political posturing in forming the next government. hope the frum parties have a strategy in addressing these issues that is much more profound than the current verbage we have seen. serious impact on world jewry should not be discounted including our own communities both subliminlly and defacto. yeshivas moving out of israel as the primary response does not sell well even to the extremely committed. Hashem Y’Rahame.

  20. Ellen says:

    the new group believes in the value of religion and will not allow a “tribe” to control it.

    Here, here! Hashem will be very happy to see all His children acknowledge their chelek. It’s time for the charedim to stop claiming – and all the others to stop believing – that they have a monopoly on Torah or Judaism. Return the scholars to their exalted role as one group within klal yisrael, not one apart from it.

  21. cvmay says:

    “unless they accept that G-d wants us there (israel)”
    Not sure that this is an acceptance within the Charedei world, either?!?!

  22. jo says:

    He is the classic politician.

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