Tiger and Us

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11 Responses

  1. ask says:

    What about Reuvein? King David? (according to some opinions in the gemara, the pesukim are literal.) There are also stories about some amoraim sinning. Great people can also sin big.

  2. Nathan says:

    Maybe we Jews should thank G_d for the Tiger Woods incidents. If not for that incident and others like it, the attention of the media would be on us Jews all the time, and that is never to our benefit.

  3. Ori says:

    Ask, Reuven and King David both became famous from a young age. The current system, if I understand it correctly, is to revere old Torah sages. Old people tend to be more stable, and therefore old virtuous people are likely to be really virtuous.

  4. Dov2 says:

    In a nutshell: King David did nothing wrong as Uriah was a rebel against David (hinted to by the fact that he addressed the rebellious Yoav as ‘My master’) and each soldier gave his wife a ‘get’ before going to battle. David had pity on him and arranged an honorable death on the battlefield rather than execution. It seems that David’s sin was that he had personal benefit (by taking Bathsheba before the proper time) and how it appeared to the masses of Israel. If otherwise, he could never be forgiven of his sin as only the wronged husband can do so and not even G-d (in this world).

    Also, as many have pointed out on numerous sites, there’s a world of a difference between an individual sinning and someone in the public eye taking advantage of those who seek the Shechina’s refuge and have left a long trail of destruction spaning continents and decades.

  5. David Morris says:

    JR’s points six: “Much of the current disappointment is a reflection of the mistaken confusion of da’as Torah with something akin to nevuah or infallibility.”

    Jonathan – This is very well expressed.

    This problem however is not due to the masses being confused, misunderstanding the nature of our gedolim. It is due to a deliberate policy by the religious authorities (such as Agudah) to white-wash the lives of gedolim, portraying them in Artscroll and similar publications as those bestowed with “something akin to nevuah or infallibility”.
    They all knew shas by the age of seven, and were poskening complicated shailos by the age of eleven. They have ruach hakodesh, and healing powers. They are NEVER acknowledged as having made a human error, or of given in to their yetzer hora.

    The problem you eloquently highlight is not of the masses, but of their leaders.

    And yes, by setting impossibly high standards (“nevua and infallibility”) when they (inevitably) fall beneath that standard and (occasionally) get exposed – the disappointment of the masses even becomes a question of faith itself.

  6. yossie abramson says:

    So Tiger’s career is over, yet Tropper is still doing his Horizon’s weekends. What does that say about priorities and principles?

  7. Yossi Ginzberg says:

    So let me see if I get this correctly: The standards by which we should judge our Torah leaders and rabbis is that of American athletics?

    If that’s the case, let’s not dwell on Tiger- We haven’t had any rabbi’s do an OJ, either. Ain’t we great?

  8. SE says:

    Dov2,
    I have heard that interpretation of Dovid’s actions before, yet I have always wondered how, given this explanation, Dovid could have sent Batsheva back home, and instructed Uriah to go home to his wife, after the incident. Wouldn’t that be sinful regardless? Perhaps you could clarify this. Thanks.

  9. Charlie Hall says:

    Unfortunately, we did this past year have a revered rabbi who was the leader of an important Jewish community arrested on financial charges that if true also constitue serious halachic violations well beyond dina malchutcha dina.

    The problem with the most recent embarassment is not that the revered rabbis aren’t worthy of reverence for their personal life, it is that they let themselves be snookered by someone who was less than worthy and essentially tried to put him in charge of conversions for all of klal yisrael! Baruch HaShem the Rabbinical Council of America and Chief Rabbi Amar set up an independent framework that is not tainted. The revered rabbis may continue to be revered for their personal characteristics and for their Torah learning, but how can we trust them on policy matters after this, especially when there is nothing to indicate that any changes are being made to prevent a repeat?

  10. Ori says:

    Charlie Hall, I think that Rabbis are trained to look for the best in people and give people the benefit of the doubt. That is good in a community Rabbi. It is good in a teacher, for example in Yeshiva. But it might not be so good in a leader.

    How do we train Rabbis to be more suspicious?

  11. Rick Stein says:

    FYI: Typo in 6th paragraph ‘Winessing’

    Just goes to show he’s not as perfect as he makes himself out to be. Surprising that someone like him that is so controlling of his professional life (brand, oncourse emotions, golf swing) would then be so out of control in his private life.

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