A haredi consensus?

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8 Responses

  1. L. Oberstein says:

    Jonathan Roenblum was hired by Rabbi Sherer to express these ideas and I hope that the chareidi community here and in Israel agrees with him. My reading of the blog commentaries and Matav.com reveals a disdain for Hadassah Hospital,blanket support for extremism, and little desire for peaceful coexistence. It is disheartening to say the least to read many of the comments. There is a major divide in the frum world and Rabbis Horowitz, Adlerstein,et. al are only one side of the story. Rabbi Sherer, Rabbi Neuberger and other such bridge builders are gone and the kanaim are standing ready to do their thing. Is it totally false to say what the Israeli police say, that many of the trouble makers are American ‘ois warfs” whose parents sent them to Israel so they wouldn’t have to deal with them. I guess we who live in America haave a hard time buying the story that Hadassah invented a blood libel and that the police tortured a tzadekes, end of story.

  2. CJ Srullowitz says:

    While Jonathan Rosenblum’s measured words are a welcome respite from the shouting that has surrounded these unfortunate events, I must take issue, lulei demistafina, with his statement, “Those hooligans represent a haredi educational failure.”

    This would imply that the system is at fault. But the fault lies at the feet of those individuals who perpetrated these crimes. That they were a distinct minority attests to the fact that this problem is not systemic. Every Moshe Rabbeinu has a few Dasans and Avirams in his camp.

  3. Yaakov Menken says:

    In Yediot, Dudi Zilbershlag provided a similar opinion — that the accusation is that this woman suffers from a serious mental ailment, and was treated like a dangerous criminal, as played out in front of the media. That, he argues, is the source of the anger. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3748548,00.html

    I disagree with “CJ”. It is an educational failure as well. There are productive and unproductive ways to behave, which should receive frequent mention in shmuezin from Roshei Yeshiva and others. This is notwithstanding the appalling and illegal behavior of the police — I stand by my earlier remark that anyone outside our community has no right to comment about the behavior of hooligans until examining the behavior of the police force, which behaves with brutality and with no respect for civil rights or the law itself. But there’s no pretending there shouldn’t be lessons learned and corrections made.

  4. joel rich says:

    Both R’JR and R’AS should consider the public relations analysis of the timing of their response and the responses of the gedolim who have responded. The lack of an immediate and clear response sends a message that is very difficult to undo.
    She-nir’eh et nehamat Yerushalayim u-binyanah bi-mherah ve-yamenu

    KT

  5. Adam says:

    Isn’t the Munchausen’s by proxy a bit of a red herring? Assuming that the child was nglected and/or abused then Munchausen’s is a MITIGATING factor for the mother as she can’t really be held responsible for her actions. If, however, she is cleared from a mental health perspective then her actions are CRIMINAL and therefore much worse.

  6. jr says:

    The fact of the matter is that the Haredi community is very good at enforcing behavior standards in the community when it desires (i.e. see the dress code of all the rioters). In this case there is just not the will (or maybe desire) to stop this behavior.

  7. Menachem Lipkin says:

    Actually, it’s not just an educational failure. It’s a systemic hashkafic failure endemic to certain sects.

    The statement by J. Rosenblum that, “IF THERE IS ONE THING, HOWEVER, about which there is a nearly unanimous agreement across all sectors of the haredi community, it is condemnation of violent actions, such as throwing stones at police and burning garbage cans.” Is misleading, at best. “Nearly unanimous” just doesn’t cut it. In RBS B, for sure and probably in some areas of Jerusalem, “nearly” is not nearly as close to unanimous as Rosemblum would have us believe.

    The idea that, “Today, however, inevitably some hotheaded youth will throw a stone at police and trigger a riot.” may be soothing to one’s cognitive dissonance, but it’s divorced from reality. The man who plans the violent protests in Mea Shaarim is no teenage hooligan. And in RBS B the violence and vandalism is planned and perpetrated mainly by adults; sometimes with “Rabbinic” leadership. So while there may also be an educational failure at work here, to imply that’s the main problem obfuscates the bigger issue.

  8. Bob Miller says:

    We are generally outsiders to the subgroups we discuss here, so our ability to know what is systemic and what is episodic or atypical among them is correspondingly limited. I would hope that the insiders who really know the score will help their communities live and act responsibly.

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