Lament, Loss, and Lesson (Hopefully) Learned

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12 Responses

  1. Garnel Ironheart says:

    > Put simply, if Hashem hasn’t yet given us the Beis HaMikdash the reason is only because we don’t want it badly enough.

    No, it’s because we haven’t corrected the root sin that caused its destruction, Sinas Chinam.

    The pain of this tragedy will fade and by the time Tisha B’av comes around – the day set aside for remembering that Sinas Chinam in the first place – we will be back at each other’s throats again.

    That’s why we’re still sitting here in Golus.

  2. Ori says:

    The problem with fighting Sinat Chinam (= baseless hatred) is that Yetzer haRa (= the evil inclination) keeps coming up with reasons for hatred.

  3. Nachum says:

    “That’s why we’re still sitting here in Golus.”

    No, you’re sitting in Golus because you haven’t moved to Israel. The ultimate Geulah may not have arrived for any number of reasons, but don’t blame Klal Yisrael for something you have the power to personally change.

    When the Geulah comes, I have a sinking feeling most American Jews will go nowhere. It happened when the Second Bayis was built; it’ll happen when the Third will be built. Unless, of course, the Third won’t be built unless we all change first. But I see no sign of that.

  4. Daniel Shain says:

    ” we are obviously not in anguish over its [the bais haMikdash’s absence and we have not cried out for its return.”

    It’s hard to believe that with all our suffering over this galus, there has not been enough anguish and yearning for yemos haMashiach and for national redemption. However, the concept of a Beis HaMikdash and Korbonos and Avodah is so foreign to us that it’s very difficult to have a visceral feeling for it’s return, even if we yearn for it intellectually.

    The Gemarrah is Sotah says that Talmud Torah has the power to protect from harm (magen u’matzil). Zecchus of Torah was able to protect the Sotah from the waters that she would drink (at least postpone the harmful effects). How do we understand this concept in light of the murder of the bochrim while they were learning?

  5. Garnel Ironheart says:

    > No, you’re sitting in Golus because you haven’t moved to Israel. The ultimate Geulah may not have arrived for any number of reasons, but don’t blame Klal Yisrael for something you have the power to personally change.

    And you’re not in Golus? Do you get to visit the Temple Mount and watch the Olas Tamid being offered? Is there a real Sanhedrin in the Lishkas HaGazis darshaning out our legal needs? Are there no more non-Jews living in Yerushalayim?

    The difference with me is that I live in the physical Golus. We all still live in a spiritual one, even those only a few blocks away from the Kotel.

  6. Yehoshua Friedman says:

    Garnel,
    I, who live in EY, agree with you that we are in Golus. But just remember the criticism leveled by Chazal against those holy Jews in Bavel who refused to heed the call of Ezra to come up when they could. For us today it is so much easier to get on a plane and come. Soon your dollars are going to be worthless and still you support the continuing state of Golus by staying there. If all the Jews were to pick up and come back home, the next shmitta could be d’oraissa, adding to the kedusha of EY and that surely would push things along. Isn’t this the sort of thing Hashem wants us all to do?

  7. Morey Schwartz says:

    The tragedy of the deaths of 8 young men, the soldiers who were killed by a land mine the week before, and all of the other deaths that occur here in Israel at the hands of our sworn enemies need not always turn into searching for how we can blame ourselves.

    Don’t blame Hashem -and stop blaming each other.

    These murders are the result of being a nation that is in a constant state of war with our enemies. War is never pleasant, and when it is a war against terrorists, the casualties are always going to include innocent civilians.

    Let’s spend our energy thanking Hashem for the opportunity that he has given us to return to Eretz Yisrael, to defend Jews throughout the world, and to learn His Torah and observe his mitzvot freely.

    Let’s appreciate what we do have and pray and work toward making it better.

    Shavua tov.

  8. shmuel says:

    Criticism? By Chazal? You mean the rabbis who lived in Babylonia instead of Israel?
    My dollars will soon be worthless? Sounds like you’re praying for that. Strange prayer. When that happens, will we American Jews still support you and your families to the tune of millions in donations, and the American government, will it still give Israel $3 billion a year? Israel is an absolute shnorrer country. Can’t get by a day without American political, monetary and military support. So we’re serving the team by being here, voting, paying taxes, influencing administrations to be nice to you in Israel. And this is the thanks we get? Next time shnorrers from Israel meet me at home or in shul begging for worthless American dollars to marry off their children, I’ll send them right back to you in Israel. I’m sure you can do a better job of supporting them than we can.

  9. Ellen says:

    Dear Shmuel,

    Don’t let them get you worked up. But really – Who is supporting Israel? You, or you as Hashem’s agent?

    What did Mordechai say to Esther? There’s always a salvation, it just depends who wants to play that role.

    We all need to realize it comes from Hashem. Of course there’s hakarat hatov. Whether an individual is doing his best for klal Yisrael – and himself – in the diaspora versus Israel is a personal evaluation, and I’m sure your considerations are deeper than the number of checks you sign or how many times you go to the voting booth.

    With best wishes for the real nahafoch hu (reversal of roles),
    Ellen

  10. Shlomo from Baltimore says:

    Wow, I just caught up on all the comments. Let’s all settle down and respect each other, wherever each of us lives.

  11. Ori says:

    Ellen: What did Mordechai say to Esther? There’s always a salvation, it just depends who wants to play that role.

    Ori: At the time the entire Jewish people lived in the Persian empire, IIRC. This is different from the survival of any subgroup of the Jewish people.

    Jews in Eretz Israel are not safe from disaster. They were not protected during the destruction of the second temple, the Bar Kochva rebellion, the times of the Byzantine empire, or the Crusades. At the risk of sounding like I lack emunah (which I do), it’s quite likely they are not safe today either.

    Without the words of an authenticated prophet, I see no reason to assume that Israel’s survival is guaranteed. It’s possible that in a century most US Jews will move to Israel. It is also possible that Israel’s surviving Jews will have to move to the US.

  12. David Rosenbaum says:

    “When an attack of these proportions occurs it’s a reminder – even to the most Zionistic among us – of just how inadequate our current situation is and of just how incomplete our “return to Zion” is at this moment.”

    Actually, I think we who live here in Israel do not need that reminder. We are painfully aware of the absence of the bet hamikdash. It seems to me you’re bursting through an open door. We’re not confusing atchalta d’geula with the full ge’ula.

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