A Heretic in the Church – II

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14 Responses

  1. Bob Miller says:

    The evolving facts on the ground will have far more effect than symposia, study/planning commissions, etc.

  2. Barbara says:

    There is Orthodox, and there is ORTHODOX (or at least that is how they want you to feel about them). How would you ever get a female “highly regarded Orthodox academic” if you are adherents of those described in this story
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=808316
    which I first saw mentioned on another blog
    http://haemtza.blogspot.com/2007_01_01_archive.html and go to January 2nd.
    The story title (if you don’t want to bother with the link) is
    “Rabbinical panel bars ultra-Orthodox women from continuing education programs”.
    This kind of thing is one of the bigger turn-offs for even the more observant of what you describe as “non-Torah Jewry”. If you follow the psak of those described in the Ha’aretz story, Professor Stone would be the last of her kind.

  3. anonymous says:

    Eytan – while I personally may agree with your analysis, perhaps you can explain why association with and participation in the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute would not violate the “ban” from the ’50s (– which specific language I admittedly do not have in front of me currently but which, rightly or otherwise, has been broadly interpreted to encompass a ban –)on membership in non-Orthodox groups which deal with religious-oriented matters. I know nothing about the JPPPI but can not but imagine that it deals with policy issues and topics touching upon halacha. If I am mistaken about the role of JPPPI and/or (as most likely) imprecise about the “ban”, please correct my misimpression.

  4. amechad says:

    I’m not sure I understand why you think JPPPI is not open to Orthodox Jews? They have plenty on their staff. Dr. Chaim Waxman, a noted sociologist, is one. Ms. Ahava Zarembski had been on JPPPI’s staff for several years and is also an Orthodox seminary graduate. Dr. Dov Maimon is an important fellow there and expert on Jewish theology.

    JPPPI is open to whomever is the most qualified.

    If you are correct, perhaps you should be asking why there aren’t many Orthodox scholars of Jewish sociology?

  5. Reb Yid says:

    The JPPPI is a “think tank” and is an arm of the Jewish Agency for Israel (JAFI).

    More about it can be found here:
    http://www.jpppi.org.il/JPPPI/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=84&FID=323

    While those on this list may or may not agree with some of its analysis and conclusions (frankly, my own take and personal experience with it is that the organization is frankly too conservative and blinded by Israel-centric views at times), the JPPPI does not fall into the “Board of Rabbis”-type of organization that some Orthodox rabbis chose/choose to boycott.

  6. anonymous says:

    Again, I may agree. However, your statement is conclusory. I still would like an explanation — and am still interested in Eytan’s views as to — what the “ban” meant and still means and why it does not apply here.

  7. Nachum says:

    Incidentally, Professor Stone teaches at Cardozo Law School, Yeshiva University. I believe she runs a program in Jewish Law there. Her husband is Professor Richard Stone of Columbia Law School, who is chairman of the OU’s Institute for Public Affairs.

    Full disclosure: I took a class with Professor Stone, and worked for her briefly, when I was a student at Cardozo.

  8. Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz says:

    amechad asked why the staff members who are Orthodox should not be counted. While it is probable that they helped move the organization, a member of the board, which sets policy rather than carries it out, is qualitatively different. It appears that many organizations would welcome an Orthodox member onto its staff, but would never allow an Orthodox Jew to be put into a policy making position.

  9. mycroft says:

    I’m not sure I understand why you think JPPPI is not open to Orthodox Jews? They have plenty on their staff. Dr. Chaim Waxman, a noted sociologist, is one

    Not only is Prof. Waxman probably the leading Orthodox sociologist- but is also a musmach. His late father-in-law was head of Ezras Torah for many years, his father was a Rav in Lakewood when Rav A Kotler established Lakewood. BTW not coincidentally-Prof. Waxman’s father was a close talmid of Rav A Kotler’s father-in-law and helped get Baal Batim aid for Lakewood to be established there.

  10. mycroft says:

    Her husband is Professor Richard Stone of Columbia Law School, who is chairman of the OU’s Institute for Public Affairs

    Leading tax lawyer who was involved with Nat Lewin for a time with COLPA-litigating Sabbath rights etc. Unfortunately since Hardison v TWA-litigation has not been too fruitful.

  11. LAWRENCE KAPLAN says:

    Mycroft: As you know very well, Prof. Waxman’s father-in-law was Rav Dovid Lifshitz, the Suvalker Rav and for many years a prominent Rosh Yeshiva in RIETS.

  12. Charles B. Hall says:

    ‘Unfortunately since Hardison v TWA-litigation has not been too fruitful.’

    There is an attempt in Congress to remedy this:

    http://www.ou.org/public_affairs/article/workplace_religious_freedom_act_some_questions_and_answers/

    It never went anywhere under the Republicans despite bipartisan sponsorship by some of the most conservative members of both houses, and almost ten years of trying. Its opponents are an unlikely coalition of absolute church/state separationists and business lobbyists. A similar law was enacted in New York and has caused businesses few problems. Hopefully the federal bill will do better under the Democrats.

  13. mycroft says:

    Mycroft: As you know very well, Prof. Waxman’s father-in-law was Rav Dovid Lifshitz, the Suvalker Rav and for many years a prominent Rosh Yeshiva in RIETS.

    Comment by LAWRENCE KAPLAN —
    Prof. Kaplan writing Rav Lifshitz’s first English name with an “o” rather than “a” as the second letter. I ghave seen stationary of Rav David Z”TL with the English name spelt David-of course well known is Rabbi Moses Feinstein ZT”L and Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik ZT”L. Their letterheades in English were as I spelt them-not Dovid, Yoseph, or Moshe. Just food for thought.

  14. mycroft says:

    Unfortunately since Hardison v TWA-litigation has not been too fruitful.’

    There is an attempt in Congress to remedy this:

    http://www.ou.org/public_affairs/article/workplace_religious_freedom_act_some_questions_and_answers/

    It never went anywhere under the Republicans despite bipartisan sponsorship by some of the most conservative members of both houses, and almost ten years of trying. Its opponents are an unlikely coalition of absolute church/state separationists and business lobbyists. A similar law was enacted in New York and has caused businesses few problems. Hopefully the federal bill will do better under the Democrats.

    Comment by Charles B. Hall

    By memory-the first time I ran into Hardison was when the Court of Appeals agreed with Hardison-I remember that and being excited-UNFORTUNATELY the Supreme Court reversed. They reversed a good quarter of a century ago-probably more-the Court of Appeals decision in Hardison was more than 30 years ago. Nothing has happened since to change the result.

    But of more interest to a blog of cross-currents is to discuss the ethics of making others suffer because of ones religion-eg in the Hardison case would make someone with less seniority work on Sabbath to let Hardison take off. I believe RYBS was bothered by that point of making others suffer because of ones religion-certainly Prof. Kaplan is a big expert on RYBS and he apparently monitors this blog as well.

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