Statistics, Lying Statistics, and Readers Digest

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5 Responses

  1. mycroft says:

    Perhaps Rav Moshe ZT”L with his innate genius could not appreciate the conceptual difficulty of Nezikin for most boys. RYBS ZT”L by contrast did not believe in teaching Nezikin to HS and younger children. It was an educational decision-not saying which is more important.

    BTW-why not hilchot nzeikin the same way we teach children-hilchot tfillah, then they will see it is one big package.

  2. tzvee says:

    “… Torah schools do their level best to elevate each and every pupil to a level where a detailed code of interpersonal conduct is as instinctive as a thanks from a Starbucks barista. Do we fail in that regard, perhaps even 5% of the time? Surely. Does that remain far better than the national average? Unquestionably.”

    Are you saying that Yeshiva students are rude 5% of the time but that is okay because it is better than the national average?

    OK how do you know this and how do you reach this conclusion about the level of tolerance that is acceptable?

  3. Yaakov Menken says:

    Tzvee, I fail to see where I said that failures are acceptable. What I said is that they are inevitable, and thus a sad excuse for dismissing the overall value of training in moral areas, like any other.

    Yeshiva students are not merely superior to their American peers in the area of rudeness, but in every impartial measure of interpersonal and teen behavior. This includes the likelihood to engage in drug or alcohol abuse, premature sexual activity, self-abusive and/or dangerous activities, vs. the likelihood to demonstrate concern for the well-being, property and dignity of their peers, those of the opposite gender, their elders, their teachers, and especially their parents. I know this because I have been through an ivy league college and several major yeshivos, and am not blind to the obvious.

    I did not speculate on the exact frequency in any of these cases, nor did I say that any percentage is “acceptable.” To expect perfection, however, is to fail to acknowledge the reality of human nature.

  4. Sarah Elias says:

    mycroft, what R. Moshe said to the rebbeim in MTJ was that Gemara learning has started with Eilu Metzios since time immemorial and this may not be changed. He did not claim that Eilu Metzios is not intricate or difficult for kids to learn; he did explain the reason why it’s done despite the difficulty.

  5. EV says:

    Okay, I’ll step up to the plate and defend NYC. I grew up in a city in the Southwest, my husband, in Silicon Valley, and upon our graduation from college almost three decades ago, we came to Los Angeles to stay. We had never visited NYC until about five years ago, before 9/11. We stayed a week there, travelling all over Manhattan and included a quick visit to the Bronx. We found New Yorkers to be warm, quite easy to strike up a conversation with. Everywhere we went, we had a nice time getting to know the locals. Yeah, there was one cranky bus driver and a cab driver who lost out on his tip when he tried to overcharge us. But the rate of misbehavior was no greater than what we experience in LA.

    Let me tell you what really impressed us. This is something I’ve never seen in the cities we’ve lived in. From time to time we saw individuals coming out of a market and leaving food, without being asked, for homeless types that would park themselves nearby. In a couple of cases, the homeless were sleeping as an apple or a bottle of orange juice was left off.

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