Masortim oppose Arch prayer fee – And so should We

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10 Responses

  1. David Gerstman says:

    Robinson’s Arch is to the right or south. The place that’s said to be opposite the Kodesh Hakadashim is to the north.

  2. Bob Miller says:

    So, if I understand this correctly, the Masortim/Conservatives found it expedient for the time being to retreat to a new prayer location by the Western Wall, but have had to pay admission there because it is an archeological site. And we’re supposed to want them to win free admission there so they won’t resume their interruptions of our own prayers at the original location.

    Before we attempt to influence policy, let’s find out what the leading Orthodox rabbis in Yerushalayim recommend. As regards halachic authority we talk the talk; now let’s walk the walk.

  3. Nachum says:

    As it happens, Robinson’s Arch is much further from the site of the Kodesh HaKadashim than the Kotel is. And, of course, the Kotel itself isn’t all that close.

  4. Nachum says:

    Also, we shouldn’t let a mention of Robinson’s Arch pass without mentioning the pasuk that we will read in the Haftorah tomorrow that a Jew carved on the wall there about 1500 years ago: “U’Reisem V’Sas Libchem, V’Atzmoseichem KaDesheh Tifrachna…”

  5. Ori Pomerantz says:

    Pirkey Avot says that a divison that is for the sake of heavens will endure, whereas one that isn’t won’t (5:16)

    ה,טז [יז] כל מחלוקת שהיא לשם שמיים, סופה להתקיים; ושאינה לשם שמיים, אין סופה להתקיים. איזו היא מחלוקת שהיא לשם שמיים, זו מחלוקת הלל ושמאי; ושאינה לשם שמיים, זו מחלוקת קורח ועדתו

    How long does a division need to exist before we should consider the other side as doing it for the sake of heaven (meaning they are well meaning, even if wrong)?

  6. mb says:

    R.Menken

    The spokesperson for Masorti is R.Andrew( Andy) Sacks. Not Jonathan

  7. Nachum says:

    It’s Rabbi Andrew Sacks, not Rabbi Jonathan Sacks.

    I think we all make a big mistake, both practically (as in Bob Miller’s comment) and hashkafically, by treating the Kotel as a shul. (And forgetting that the actual holy location is well overhead.) It wasn’t, really, until 1967. Robinson’s Arch certainly isn’t, and never was. Bob, the only way Orthodox authorities would have a say would be if they could keep a Conservative synagogue from opening anywhere. They can’t.

  8. Yaakov Menken says:

    My apologies for using the name of the Chief Rabbi of Britain, Jonathan Sacks. The Conservative Rabbi is indeed Andrew Sacks as commented.

    But the line was funny anyway. 🙂

    Bob, I do not expect Jerusalem’s leading Rabbis to intervene in a dispute between Conservatives and the government.

  9. Bob Miller says:

    Nachum said,
    “I think we all make a big mistake, both practically (as in Bob Miller’s comment) and hashkafically, by treating the Kotel as a shul. (And forgetting that the actual holy location is well overhead.) It wasn’t, really, until 1967. Robinson’s Arch certainly isn’t, and never was. Bob, the only way Orthodox authorities would have a say would be if they could keep a Conservative synagogue from opening anywhere. They can’t.”

    Rabbi Menken said,
    “Bob, I do not expect Jerusalem’s leading Rabbis to intervene in a dispute between Conservatives and the government.’

    These quotes reflect a misunderstanding, so I’ll try to clarify my idea as follows:

    Jews (the “we” in my earlier post) should seek the recommendations of the Orthodox rabbinic authorities on the scene in Yerushalayim before advocating a government course of action that affects Yerushalayim.

  1. February 26, 2007

    […] Most of the article, thankfully, is far more acceptable. It was written primarily to tell us that the Government of Israel and the Masorti (Conservative) movement are no longer at odds. The Masortim had been given a space to pray at the Robinson’s Arch area, so as not to disturb the traditional, separate-gender services in the main plaza. Yet because the Arch is also an archaeological garden, Israel’s bureaucrats, in their great wisdom, imposed a substantial fee upon anyone appearing after 8 a.m. regardless if they were coming to pray or look at the site. [Telling the mispallelim that “you can only look up, not down” wasn’t an option.] This was incredibly unfair, especially as the Masortim had, as Rubin writes, “agreed to give up legal challenges of the right to pray as they saw fit in the Western Wall plaza’s main section.” Astute readers might remember that I chimed in on the side of the Conservatives on this one. “With the new pact, Conservative Jews can enter daily sans fee until 10:30 a.m., and on Shabbat evening and on holidays to daven.” […]

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